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A little help please

My room is 13' x 21' x 8.5' ceiling. Speakers are located along the short wall about 12-18" off the wall. They can't come out as they'll block an entrance way.  They are about 4' from the side walls. 

Currently I have a Prima Luna Classic Integrated with their standard tubes. Source is Rega Apollo R, MMF-5/Clear Audio Nano V2, or Proton DAC. Speakers are Totem Arro (no mass laoding).

I realize that my placement isn't ideal and my wife's need for decorating balance with furnishings,etc require some trade-offs but I just don't think these speakers are up for the job in some cases. Some songs, like acoustic blues, female vocals, even piano sound great but I'm sometimes finding other recordings seem to sound muddy and there's no real pop and umf on some drums; like I'm hearing music but not feeling it some times.

The totems are not mass loaded. I have heard that mass loading them will tighten up the bass. I could also try some different tubes, but overall I'm not sure either or both will make that big a difference. Which leads me to a discussion of a sub or some new speakers.

I lean towards new speakers.

Possibilities (depending on what I can get my wife to agree to in price and size) are:

PSB Imagine T2, Quad 25L, Revel F206 - As noted above there are decorating issues. A sofa is located about 2.5 feet in front of the right side. As it is now imaging is good, my concern with these is they all have some low driver positions that will be an issue unless I can relocate. Relocating to the long wall is an issue because I'd have to straddle a working fireplace as well as other considerations. 

A larger Totem Forest - leaves me wondering if I'll have similar issues with bass.

Audio Physic Tempo 25 (NOT the plus version) - demo from my local store.

Vandersteen 3A - Signature - also demo from my local store. These are likely too big for my wife's taste; and quite possibly my amp.

  One thing I didn't note so far was the possibility of a sub-woofer.  I'm not thrilled with the idea but I haven't given it an ear so I can't say.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks for reading and taking the time to respond, Jetson.
jetson
jetson OP
140 posts
 
freediver: Very cool. And deep diving "back in the day" (I'm 53) was even more dangerous than now. Thanks much for your service. 

" Yea the Dialog would have no trouble with the Arro’s.If you could trade up to that amp you would NEVER need another  & speaker choices would be wide open " 

That's why I was thinking of upgrading the amp first - although I hadn't decided on a new PL vs other. I think that I'll talk to him about that and ask to borrow his Dialogue to audition it at home with my speakers.

On the bright side, then I'll know for sure if I can live with the ARROs for a while, at least. 

If I go with the PL Dialogue, I can cancel a phono preamp I have on order from him and get the phono board in the Dialogue HP, which saves a few bucks and probably sounds better.

Decisions, decisions.
jond's avatar
jond
5,754 posts
 
So your amp can use both EL-34's and KT-88's and you said your using stock tubes. Which output tube are you using? Since you already own the amp perhaps a bit of tweaking it might get you somewhere? Unless you just really want to upgrade?
jetson OP
140 posts
 
One way or another I do want to upgrade. Still, I sent an email to PL asking about my problem with the classic and these speakers.

 I asked them to comment on the speaker nominal impedance and phase angle as well as whether there was something I could do with this amp to better match it to the speakers.
jetson OP
140 posts
 
I've not heard back from PL yet.

I've decided that new speakers is the path to go. I'll experiment with some tubes but I need to learn a lot more there first.

Speaker list so far is 

Acoustic Zen Adagio - ($3,870): good on price, hard to find where I listen to these; waiting on reply to email

Vandersteen Sig 3A ($4,775) or Treo ($6,900) or used Quatro  ($4,995): 3A is likely not good near wall, the adjustment option is more band aid than anything to my mind. 

Reference 3A Taskim ($6,990)

Rega RX5 ($2,995) or RS7 ($3,195)

Waiting to hear from JMR on their  ABSCISSA ($5,500 ) and the Offrande Supreme V2’s ($7,500)

All are supposed to be easy to drive. The Acoustic Zen, Rega, Treo and Quatro are good for near wall as far as I know. The Sig 3A is rear firing sub but adjustable. That seems like a band-aid not a design solution so that may be out.

Reference 3A ( a demo issue (no local listening).  They have a home audition option that if I keep them saves some, but loses the return freight if I don't.  They're getting back to me on the near wall part.

JMR, Reference 3A and Acoustic Zen all have the dealer/hard to audition problem.

I plan on  visiting John Rutan at Audio Connection to hear the Vandersteen and Rega.

Any thoughts to add to the above are welcome.
jl35
3,966 posts
 
From what I read from Vandersteen fans here, placement is crucial, more so than with many speakers, but you sure are going to the right person...
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