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Integrating a new turntable into existing system and having sound quality problems...

Hi, I just a purchased a brand new turntable a Project Carbon debut and a Project Phono Box and integrated them into my existing stereo system and have run into some sound quality issues.


Problems

1. The first album I played was a brand new Diana Krall Wallflower album.  Her voice seemed very thin and crackly (not the traditional cracks and pops of vinyl) which was surprising given her voice is so smooth when listening to her CDs.  I brought the album back to the store and they played it on their cheap system and it seemed to work fine.

2. None of the other albums had the same level of thinness and tininess as the diana Krall album but they all seemed light on bass compared to listening to CDs on the same system.

3. One odd thing i noticed on the Diana Krall album was that my tonearm kept wanting to come off the album at the start rather than grab a groove and work inwards.  not a problem i have experienced with the other 6 albums I have been playing.


My Setup

Rotel RCD 991 as a transport

Bryston Dac

Mastersound compact 845 integrated - Single end triode with 2x30 watts

Pioneer speakers S-03EX - their TAD  trickle down speakers - not the usual Pioneer speaker


I added the Project Carbon Debut, plugged into the Project Phono Box, plugged into the AUX input of the integrated amp (therefore I am using both the pre and power functions of the integrated)


Any help on troubleshooting the poor sound quality issue would be appreciated.  I wasn't sure if it was related to

1. vinyl sounds like crap compared to CD (not likely) but it does in the Diana krall situation

2. is it just the wrong synergy of the system?

3. is the turntable not good enough to match the quality of the amp and speakers?

4. are there adjustments that I should be making to the tonearm to have more down ward force to pick up more bass???

5.do I need a higher quality phono stage?

6. should I get a higher quality phono pre amp and skip the pre amp stage in my integrated - although I assume given the build quality of my integrated, I would need to pay a pretty penny to get a comparable or better stand alone phono preamp.


Any input would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

vwman111
vwman111 OP
4 posts
 

Thank you for all you helpful suggestions.

I have tried to reset the counterweight and VTF per the instruction manual.  I haven't tried going outside of those recommendations to see if that makes a difference.


I'll try taking a look at the wiring but that may be beyond my level of expertise with the equipment.


Unfortunately, I purchased the turntable in the nearest large city and the album was purchased from the local drug store that has a couple set ups (so you can imagine how cheap they are)


I did check the phono box and it is switched to MM.


One other thing i noticed  is that when I am not playing any music but my integrated is set to the AUX input where the phono is attached, i do hear a humming coming from the left speaker which is also the most distorted speaker  when listening to the Diana krall album.


The issue is most noticeable on the diana krall vocals, and some tracks much more than others, but there seems to be an overall distortion in the highs on the other albums as well.  not sure if that is just a weakness of vinyl or not.  I was wondering if my phono may not be amplifying the level enough before feeding into the integrated and that playing the integrated on 10:00 is starting to clip or distort at the high ends.  I play the CD player between 9-10:00 and never have this issue.  I was wondering if a phono preamp with gain on may help the situation.


Thank again for all your advice

audiotomb's avatar
audiotomb
1,112 posts
 
Sounds like it would be worth the money to have someone come out to the house (bring a scope and test records) and set the table up properly.

also they could check out a possible polarity flip / headshell clip (or cable to amp flip) problem

don’t let this bother you

you have plenty of wonderful inexpensive records awaiting you
minkwelder
256 posts
 
Do you have the CD player plugged into the CD or Direct input? If it’s running into the CD input and sounds OK, try temporarily plugging the phono preamp into the CD input. If it still sounds bad, you’ve eliminated the amp as the source of the problem.

Then try reversing the interconnects at the amp (L to R and R to L) and see if the noise moves to the right channel. If it does, first suspect a bad interconnect or bad connection in the side making noise. It could be anywhere along the signal path all the way back to the cartridge.

Do you know for certain that the Phono Box is OK?

You will find the problem if you logically run through a process of elimination.

EDIT: After posting, I decided to look for some customer reviews on the Debut Carbon. That's when I discovered that there are numerous complaints about noise and hum, particularly LEFT channel problems! It appears that you may be experiencing a problem that is due to a defect in the manufacture of the table.
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,468 posts
 
vwman....do you live in Arizona?
vwman111 OP
4 posts
 

Thank you again for all of your suggestions.


Stingreen - Unfortunately I don't live close to Arizona, I'm up in Vancouver.


Minkwelder - I will start to review some of those threads on the Debut Carbon buzzing.


Here is a list of what I have done to date:


1. hum comes from speakers even when power to turntable is turned off (but still plugged in)

2. I removed the grounding cable and it make a much louder hum.

3. I reconnected the ground cable to my power conditioner instead of phono amp.

4. I tried different interconnects

5. I switched the L and R and the hum started to come through the R speaker instead of the L

6. I switched the input of the TT to CD on my integrated amp and the hum was still there

7. I fiddled around with the interconnects to the TT and it seemed very sensitive causing additional humming or reducing humming if I kept my finger on it with a certain amount of pressure.


Clarification - when I say hum, it is a combination of hum and crackle that comes through the left speaker even when TT is not playing or turned on.  It really expresses itself with certain vocal ranges (i.e. Diana Krall and Michael Buble duet), where it sounds awful.  On some other jazz albums without vocals the effect isn't as noticeable.


I guess I am off to the dealer next week.  Any suggestions on whether I should be sticking with a new Debut Carbon of if there is something else I should get (including an upgrade) for up to $1k.  The Rega RP3 with Elyse are on sale for less than $1k in Canada.


Thanks

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