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Tonearm recommendation

Hello all,
Recently procured a Feickert Blackbird w/ the Jelco 12 inch tonearm.
The table is really good, and its a keeper. The Jelco is also very good, but not as good as my Fidelity Research FR66s. So the Jelco will eventually hit Ebay, and the question remains do I keep the FR66s or sell that and buy something modern in the 5-6 K range. My only point of reference is my old JMW-10 on my Aries MK1, so I don't know how the FR66s would compare to a modern arm. So I'd like to rely on the collective knowledge and experience of this group for a recommendation.

Keep the FR66s, or go modern in the 5-6K range, say a Moerch DP8 or maybe an SME.

Any and all thoughts and opinions are of course much appreciated.

Cheers,      Crazy Bill
wrm0325
fleib
1,124 posts
 

Raul,

*I said " over and over " because almost no one post the right answer explain it why I’m totally wrong or why they are recomended " this or that ". *

Because it doesn't work like that.  You made a case for damping. Damping is one factor, not the main consideration. In the initial post we read that the Jelco arm is inferior. I think you would agree, yet the Jelco is fluid damped at the pivot. Clearly, there are other factors.

You talk about ringing and amplifying vibrations. In my experience with these FR arms, the right headshell combined with a suitable low compliance cartridge, negates this consideration.  I've heard them with a small amount of armtube damping and less than perfect match with cart compliance and still nice results.

Maybe the 4 point would be better, I don't know, but I don't think it falls within the price constraints. This is a matter of opinion not a case of right/wrong. 

Sincerely,

dover
2,249 posts
 
Raul - you give me a lecture on how to test properly, but you can't even install a cartridge properly in your own system.

rauliruegas  02-04-2016 4:58am
Dear dover: I must add that that PURE MUSIC SIGNAL that pass through the internal tonearm wires when " touch " the IC cables that send it to the phonopreamp starts the continuos degradation of that true grooves modulations information all over each single link in the system audio chain.

Now, when any kind of distortions " disappear " in that first link ( cartridge/tonearm/TT ) then all the additional single system links distortions are more evident and we have to fine tune each of those system links and sometimes even change some of those links as cables or electronics even we have to adjust our seat position and the speakers position and a check up that the room treatment is not overdamped even to check the SPL we are listening in this totally new experience.
This check up of the SPL we are listening is important because when the distortions goes lower and lower we think that the volume/SPL of what we are hearing goes lower too but it's not really in that way. What's happening is that you are not hearing to the high distortions you were accustom to.

Like you I own an original Dynavector Karat Nova 13D.
Here is a video showing you the error in your set up. You installed this cartridge such that the headshell is mounted upside down in your tonearm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4o-imxZHS8
Furthermore I think you are wrong to adjust the SPL and listening position when you change the TT set up - the rest of the system should remain constant for true comparisons. 





Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dear dover: """  but you can't even install a cartridge properly in your own system."""

I never used my two 13 D with its original headshell and never in that tonearm.  That picture comes and was only to showed on Agon when I sold  one of my 13D.

I never used with the original headshell because I want it to connect directly to the internal wires on my tonearms with out all those signal degrading connectors and you can see it in that pictures.

So, your post is a misunderstood from your part because you did not know that. Relax, as you any one wants to " get " me on errors and mistakes to disregards my opinions or explanations, I understand this and no problem from my part.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dover: Unfortunatelly you failed this time but just keep trying because I make mistakes every single day. Good luck on this, maybe next time.

Btw, it's incredible that you took all the time to say all the world about the mistake of Raul.
Dover who cares about Raul? , no one and now you makes me " famous " because my " mistake ". Thank's for that and as I said: keep trying as JW.

Btw, that tonearm in the picture is a very good Sony, recomended and and way better that your FRs. Well almost anything is better.

That cartridge I put on sale is still with me because the Agon buyer never pay for it and if you remember in that time I write in the advertasing that the buyer could choice for the original female cartridge connectors or the way I have it: with male connectors for tonearms like Triplanar, Graham and the like.

Well, now I can see you showed the " cooper " in you. Good to know it.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dear fleib:  """  With all your ear training I'm surprised you can't hear the affect of over-damping a tonearm. One can MEASURE a negative affect on transient response by over-damping. It also tends to kill the natural sustain of acoustic instruments. I agree with Dover, arms are easily over-damped.  """

problem is that you don't really read with care my posts and additional that you are very dogmatic. 
Look and I repeat: WE CAN'T OVERDAMP A TONEARM EVER.

Before you post again on this subject please re-read what I posted to dover where the essence is here:

"""  in an audio perfect world with out TT/platter/arm board/tonearm/  vibrations/resonances/feedback/generated noise/ system/room air pollution and with perfect LPs  the cartridge pick up the information exist in the LP grooves and before and after the cartridge makes its transducer job what we have and pass through the tonearm internal wires is just the recorded grooves modulations with no single added " noises " of any kind and this modulation grooves music information is what you, me and every one want to listen: THE PURE MUSICAL INFORMATION ....."""""""


in that Pure Muscal Information comes all that transient response and the natural sustain of acoustic instruments. In the LP grooves modulations comes all type of " sounds " recorded, almost nothig is lost and all these is what we want to listen with out adding NOTHING so please tell me: how can we overdap a tonearm?, for me it's impossible to do it because all those recorded information in the LP grooves modulations goes in the tonearm internal wires.
Remember that we are talking on a " analog perfect world " where any additional " information " ( name it noise, distortions, resonances or what ever you want to name it. ) only goes against that " transient response, the natural sustain of acoustic instruments and several other things.

So, because we don't live in a perfect audio world we must to " overdamp " the tonearm.
I know to what kind of quality sound you are accustom to just like almost every one else. I was there too.

Try to think " out of the box " try to ask you:

HEY WHAT IF SEVERAL OF THE INFORMATION I RECEIVED THROUGH MY AUDIO LIFE 20-50 years ) WAS WRONG INFORMATION?

and that is my advise to any audiophile that wants to grow-up.

So, the worst tonearm design is the non-damped one. Btw, the Jelco is way superior to the 64/66 but his owner can'tdiscriminate in between, that's all.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.





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