Will Changing my 100 Watt Tube Amp to a 200 Watt SS Amp Solve My Problem?


Hello All,  I have a 100 watt Audio Research VT100 mk II amp, with an Audio Research LS-25 preamp.  My speakers are relatively low in sensitivity, and I find that I must turn the volume up to 3 o'clock on the preamp to get enough volume for a loud listening experience.  When I do that, I am introducing more background noise.

I would like to achieve a quieter noise floor.  I am also curious about the limits of the 100 wpc amp with the Mira Monitors.  Would an older Krell 200 watt class A amp "control" the speakers better?  If so, what are the benefits of this?  There are a few amps on this site that caught my eye, all about the same value as my amp, so I can potentially make a move with very little cost.  Is this a good idea? How much wattage increase is necessary to get a significant enough difference?  Would a jump to 150 watt solid state be sufficient?


here are the 3 amps that caught my eye:

Ayre: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-ayre-acoustics-v-5xe-amplifier-2016-02-05-amplifiers-h...

Krell: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-krell-ksa-250-2016-02-14-amplifiers-91754-monterey-par...

BAT:
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-balanced-audio-technology-bat-vk-250se-bat-pak-2channe...



You can see my complete system here if you want to know more about the other components:  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5421



Thanks!
Mark
marktomaras
I have had the following problems in the past. 1st: I had a classe preamp driving a mcintosh amp and I had to turn the volume up almost all the way to get the volume I wanted. It was a mis match between the preamp and amp voltages and classe told me they could modify the preamp to make it compatible with the mcintosh, so I ended up with a classe amp and I was driving the same setup at around 10-11 o'clock on the preamp.
2nd issue: I had a rogue magnum integrated tube amp with the it-120 tubes and it didn't control the speakers very well. I changed the wiring inside for 4 ohm tap and it was much better. 
1 more thing. Even running with the 4 ohm, the 100+ watts wasn't controlling the low end enough for me, and in some cases I had to get the volume setting to around 2 o'clock for the output I wanted. I ended up buying a 250 watt Hegel integrated and night and day difference IMO. Never go above 50 out of 99 for volume and the speakers don't sound as wholly. i liked the rogue very much but I would have had to get a larger tube amp but even then I'm not sure it would have helped to control the bass. the best of both worlds could be using a tube pre with a ss amp.

Update,

I tried listening to the noise of the preamp on its own.  I powered on the phono pre, the preamp, and the power amp.  I then put the volume at maximum, with no source playing.  I began with the phono selector on the preamp.  At full volume, the hiss+subtle hum is fully audible at the listening position.  Then I tried the other inputs on the preamp, beginning with the input for the DAC, powered on, no music playing.  Followed by all of the other inputs.  Even at full volume, only the input connected to the phono stage produces the noise.  The other inputs, including the connected DAC input are extremely quiet, even at full volume with my head near the speaker.  I can hear noise, but it is subtle, and my head is near the speaker at full volume!

I tried moving the phono stage to another input, to see if there was a problem in the input circuitry.  This is not the case.  The same noise simply moved over to an aux input, and the phono input went quiet.

Interestingly, but probably inconsequential, is that the unused CD input has a little hum to it at full volume, whereas the other inputs do not.  This is just a little side note.  

So, does this experiment show that the preamp is quiet and the phono stage is noisy?  Or, is it still the preamp somehow, and the higher gain of the phono stage is bringing out the inherent noise in the preamp somehow?

Lastly, I found some tubes that I bought years ago, and never used.  They are NOS 6H23P-EB (Premium) tubes.  http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922

I was thinking to try them out to see if there is lower noise, but after this experiment, I don't think it will do much, it seems that the culprit is the phono stage.  

What do you think?
Update 2.

After the above experiment, I followed the idea that the preamp is actually quiet and that the phono stage is causing the noise.  I lowered the gain on the phono stage from 55 to 50db.  The theory is that I can turn the volume high without much issue on the preamp.  I did this, and indeed, with the lower gain on the Whest, I had to raise the volume quite high to get a lout experience, but I was not maxed out.  Before I played the music, I listened to the noise at full volume, with the newly lowered gain on the phono stage.  The noise was lower, as expected, but not by a huge amount.

I played Miles Davis Kind Of Blue.  I listened to the noise at full volume with nothing playing to familiarize my mind and ears, then I lowered the volume and played the record.  As the needle began to play, I immediately heard a fairly considerable amount of noise.  But this I felt was in the recording, not due to my amplifiers.

The sound was excellent by the way, but that noise is still there a bit.

Then I fired up the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC mkII and played the same track.  I use the balanced connections on the DAC and I also turn the volume to full as I was instructed by some of the aficionados of this product.  The result is that the output is much higher than that of the phono stage, so my volume control on the ARC preamp is far lower, dropping the noise floor even lower.

To finish the comparison of Miles Davis, the noise in the recording that I heard on the vinyl was also there on the digital.

I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these new tests.  Please let me know if I am drawing the proper conclusions.  Perhaps I need a quieter phono stage.  Maybe I do not need a ton of gain.  50db is working, though I am still at the top of the volume control.  If I could have a dead quiet, phono pre with 55 db of gain, that may be the perfect accompaniment to this system, that is, if I am interpreting the experiment properly.
Hi Mark, It appears that you have sourced your problem correctly to your phono stage and/or cartridge. To determine whether its is the phono stage or the cartridge or both in combination, disconnect the IC from your TT to the phono stage and just listen to the phono stage at various gain levels and with your pre-amp VC . If there is no noise (as I suspect there will not be) then you have either a mismatch with the cartridge due to the inherent noise floor of the cartridge, something mechanically deficient in the cartridge or its set up. I'm not familiar with your phono stage or cartridge so I can't help you on this issue.

I'll save your eyes a bit by not amplifying on these comments but I would be happy to explain my conclusions if you ask.
1) There is nothing wrong with your pre-amp.
 2) There is nothing wrong mechanically speaking with its tubes.
 3) There is nothing wrong with having to listen with your volume control at 3 o'clock or even wide open if that is the position that meets your needs. Remember, all a volume control does in your pre-amp is lower the strength of the signal from the source before it reaches your volume control.. That's all. It does not lower the strength of the output from the pre-amp's tube section which is seen at a constant level by your amp.To some degree its function is redundant to the other options your have to reduce source output strength.

BTW, re the hum on the unconnected CD input selection. Small hums can be very difficult to trace. But before you conclude that this is a problem try connecting your dac to this input and see if the hum goes away.

Hope this helps a bit. Perhaps others can comment on your phono stage/cartridge/set up issues.