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Thinking of moving from AVR to pre/pro and amp

Disclaimer: I don't know what I don't know. I do not have any major complaints with my current system which I will detail later, but I do know it doesn't sound as close to "live" performances as I'd like. Having read many threads, I believe that moving to separates will help in this area, but I may not have the best reading comprehension. I need your expertise.

My system is used 90/10 TV or DVD/Music, so that's another issue. However, when we play music we tend to really play music. We had the Wadia ipod transport running 12 hours/day over the time between Christmas and New Years, so there are long stretches of listening opportunties. I ran a great number of CDs through my Oppo 95 during this stretch too. Last year I only ran CDs as I didn't have the Wadia (I use Apple Lossless files in the ipod).

There is no option to have a separate music only room or second system no matter how much I'd like to. I have spousal asthetic and ease of use issues to contend with so therefore, whatever I buy must be black and work with my Harmony 1000 touch screen remote.

My upgrade budget is miniscule, <$2k. Used equipment is fine. No HDMI switching is fine as I already am dealing with that now.

My current system is a Rotel RSX 1056 receiver, Oppo 95 running analog 5.1 to the Rotel for audio and video via HDMI to the Sony Bravia XBR IV LCD TV. DirecTV DVR runs digital audio to the Rotel and video via HDMI to the Sony. Oppo 95 plays the CDs through the 5.1 analog cables, though in stereo mode. I use a Wadia transport to run analog into the CD input of the Rotel.

Speakers are B&W LCR6 S2's up front and B&W in ceiling surrounds out back. Two Velodyne SPL10 subs handle the lower frequencies (iirc, I cross over at 100 hz).

I currently can locally get a consignment sale 1-owner Arcam AVP700/P1000 setup for what seems to be a reasonable price ($1350 firm), or I could get a new Emotiva setup with their pre/pro and the 200wpc 5-channel amp for my <$2k budget (albeit not the newest pre/pro with balanced outputs as it isn't out yet and it would stretch the budget too far anyway).

The Arcam P1000 has an advantage in that I can use the extra 2 channels for my patio speakers and sell my ancient SAE 50wpc amp as there seems to be a demand for these on ebay (or there used to be). Not a deal maker, but a plus. Emotiva stuff comes with a warranty and a 30 day trial period, which could be a huge plus. Buying black end plates for the Emotiva is a minus, but not a deal breaker.

I like the warm sound of the B&W/Rotel combo, but it lacks *something* that I can not put words to. I'm hoping moving to more power and a better processor will open this up a bit. For instance, on my current system solo piano music sounds nice, but I just do not *feel* it like I do when someone plays a nice piano live. Same with vocals, they are just not there for me through this system. Norah Jones 'come away with me' is a bit thinner sounding than I'd like is an example that comes to mind.

Damn the new performing arts center and its excellent acoustics! I used to be more ok with the sound that I have. However, after a season seeing a bunch of live shows including performers like Botti and also The Tenors, I find it wanting (sub-note/humble brag: if you saw the Tenors lead with your heart PBS special over the holidays, you saw my wife and I in the crowd shots more than once). I also listen to Rush, Steely Dan, and even (please don't laugh) Jim Brickman. Eclectic tastes.

My room probably does not help at all with 12' ceilings, big open spaces, tile floors with one 12x12 area rug and leather furniture. Additional room treatments outside of possibly an area rug under the dining room table at the far end of the room are unlikely. See wife comment above.

Is it worth dropping money on either the Arcam or Emotiva setup?

Speaker changes are unlikely unless they would match the width of the LCR 6's for the front L&R. Center channel space is limited by the HDTV stand.

The Emotiva would allow me to run HDMI and clean up my cable runs a bit, though I do like the processing the OPPO does (over my last Blu Ray player).

Maybe I should just pay for better seats at the performing arts center?

Thanks for reading all this and I appreciate your help.
admranger
admranger OP
144 posts
 
I moved the subs back to right in front of the L&R speakers.

I haven't done too much listening yet, but for a movie it was better than having them spaced wide.

This week I'll have more time to do some listening. We'll see what happens.
robr45's avatar
robr45
319 posts
 
Look into room correction. Outside of speakers and placement this can have the biggest impact on sound from my experience. There are several good systems available which are integrated into many popular avrs/prepros.
admranger OP
144 posts
 
Robr45: Room correction is something I've wondered about. My room is an odd duck, no doubt.

However, thanks to a lot of the advice here, I have had some good experiments this past week.

Subs are now in the front again, right in front of my speaker stands (though the WAF is low on this).

I did spend some $ on one 'tweak', if you will. I put the speakers, subs, receiver, dvd/cd player, and dvr on sorbothane hemispheres. These seemed to help. I didn't do a/b comparisons on each component, but rather did them pretty much all at once.

With the speaker stands and speaker aiming, sub placement, and sorbothane isolators, the soundstage has opened up and the midrange has emerged a bit more. Instrument placement is better (listening to Marc Cohn's "Walking in Memphis" right now). Vocals are better placed. It's still not as good as I would like, but it is definitely better.
admranger OP
144 posts
 
Well, I think we have found part of the problem... I went to my Ear/Nose/Throat Dr. as I've had some tinnitus issues that have been getting a bit worse. He ran me through the hearing tests and the results showed a big loss at 4k hz and it goes on until about 12k hz if I read the chart right. Classic hearing loss probably caused by some of my activities in my 20-40 year old range.

Oh well...I still have made improvements in the sound of the room, so that's good.
admranger OP
144 posts
 
Update time!

Ignoring the group's collective judgement (naturally...), I went out and purchased some new pieces for my HT.

I recently picked up a used Arcam P1000 (135w x 7) amp from an awesome Audiogoner! Right now I'm using the pre-outs on my Rotel receiver going into the P1000 w/some run of the mill RCA interconnects. It opened the soundstage up a bit and has a more 'airy' sound to it, so that makes me excited about the next part that should arrive on Friday...

Friday I should receive a new Marantz AV8801 pre/pro from Audiogoner Steve at Sound Video in Minnesota. I chose this pre/pro over others (Integra/Onkyo, Denon, etc., etc.) due to a number of reasons (including the dreaded wife acceptance factor), but mostly for the XT32 and the bass management features (remember, I have dual subs in my awkwardly large, asymetrical, 'lively' room). The Stereophile review didn't hurt either. I decided to get something it the XT32 after playing around with an earlier version of the Audessey software in a car stereo application. The processed vs. unprocessed comparisons (and graphs) are eye-popping and ear awakening in their differences. Really amazing change.

I'll use some balanced interconnects for the pre/pro to amp connection, and run HDMI cables from the Oppo 95 and the DirecTV DVR to the 8801, then from the 8801 to my Sony Bravia IV HDTV (hopefully to be replaced by the new Samsung Plasma, but likely not until the Black Friday sales).

Depending on how much XT32 affects the sound, I may run 2 ch analog out from the Oppo 95 and play though the direct mode on the Marantz. Afterall, the Sabre DACs should be better than the Marantz's or I wasted a lot of money getting the 95 over the 93! I'll defnitely try it with my best RCA cables just to see...

I also bought some XLR to RCA subwoofer cables that are long enough so that I can move my subs to less visually prominent location (WAF strikes again). We shall see how that works too. the Audessey bass management will really help here is my guess.

Next up I believe the weakest (easily changeable) link to be my speakers, but that's going to take some time to get my audio fund restored to a level that will support the kind of speakers I would like to get.

I will keep you posted on the results once things settle in a bit. Thanks again for the setup tips and all the suggestions. I will still implement the speaker aiming tricks as I go forward.
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