What is the "sound" dif. between a Joule -Elctra OTL and a SET amp??

Hi Charles 1 dad,

I too find both the Atmasphere and Berning to be somewhat on the lean side, but, I like the liveliness of the sound they deliver.  While I did not make any sort of direct comparison of the Joules with either OTL, I did hear the Joules against another OTL (custom-made, non-commercial amps) and the Joules were slightly warmer sounding, but, also not quite as dynamic and lively; so, at least in this case, there was some tradeoff involved.  I think one can get quite lively sound from other tube topologies, like SET amps, but, the big limitation there is that the best sounding SET amps have a very limited output and only work well with a few speakers; OTLs can be made to work with a wider range of speakers.  

The BIG Joule OTL I heard also had a problem which caused it to intermittently put out a HUGE, window rattling pop.  This turned out to be caused by bad tube sockets which had to be replaced.  That is a very BIG job on amps with that many tubes.  I know a few people who had, in my view, a bit more reliability issues with their OTLs than I would be comfortable with having in my own system.  I have had zero reliability issues with my Audio Note Kageki or my pushpull Western Electric 133 amp, but, I just might be lucky (so far).

Larryi,
I'd be happy if Fluffers can compare his Wyetech 211 SET  with the Joule  OTL. It would be very interesting to read his listening impressions. I have no doubt that these two amplifiers provide rather different sonic presentations. Wyetech has an excellent reputation for sound quality. 
Charles, 

Fluffers isn't interested in Frankenstein,  he's has the Wyetech 211 amplifiers and is considering the Joule OTL. Thaluza owns the Frankenstein and previously owned the Jolues.
Charles,

Thanks- as you surmised I was confused.

FWIW you might want to hear the M-60 on the CALs sometime and see if you still think it sounds lean. Because our amps really don't use feedback, the sound can be influenced by the loudspeaker's impedance curve and whether the designer was expecting the amplifier to employ feedback. 'Lean' is not how our customers tend to describe the product (although they don't tend to use 'lush' either...).

The T-1 was designed using a pair of our amplifiers. John bought his first set of amps from us about 1989.

Also, I would make sure that the output tubes are readily available. I bought new tubes 2 years ago, but found that a lot of tube sellers were not carrying them anymore, or if they did, they were asking high prices. Even the usually reliable Russian dealers did not have them in stock.

I forgot to address this issue- the 6C33 is still not that hard to find. We re-issued our Novacron amplifier which uses that tube and have not had any troubles finding the power tubes at all.

The main problem you are going to be dealing with when using *any* amplifier that uses that tube is socket reliability. The Russians were not concerned with socket reliability when they designed the tube- initially they expected that the tube would serve 750 hours and then be replaced along with its socket. It was for a military application after all. In practice, the tubes often outlive the sockets, which develop bad filament connections due to the excess current in the filament circuit. What this means is that the sockets should be replaced as a regular part of the maintenance of the amplifier. Obviously this should be done by a qualified technician! Anyone owning an amplifier using 6C33s knows this and it was hinted at in larryi's post above.

Ralph, 
I didn't use the term lean with negative connotations but simply as a relative comparison based on my listening experience  of it compared to my current amplifier.   I haven't heard the Joule OTL. A friend of mine is familiar with the Joule  and the Atma-Sphere OTLs. His impression of their tonality is  the same as Larryi. Not a case of  better /worse but different presentations were observed. No question that speaker or system compatibility would favor one over the other. 
Charles, 

Ralph,

 If the OP were to limit responses to only those with experience with Wyetech and JE, crickets would be chirping. The OP's post is titled "What is the "sound" dif. between a Joule -Elctra OTL and a SET amp??"  I responded in accordance to what was in the title.

Being a former longtime Joule owner, I was trying to give the OP information from someone with the actual experience of owning a Joule amp. That's all, I wasn't trying to make it into a Frankenstein thread. I mentioned the brand and make of my amp, and a brief description of what I am hearing from that amp, to give the OP perspective on where I am coming from. That's all.

I had a few sources for 6c33c tubes that I tried. Joule Electra was the main source, but they went out of business and stopped selling tubes. Upscale Audio was another source, and they did not have any in stock. Another source was a popular Russian tube seller whom I had purchased from in the past, and they surprisingly did not have any either. There were a couple of other well known US based tube sellers that did not have any either. This was two years ago, looks like things have changed.

Peace,
Tom