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Tonearm mount on the plinth or on Pillar ?

Folks,
I am looking to buy a custom built turntable from Torqueo Audio (http://www.torqueo-audio.it/). They have two models, one with a wide base plinth where the tonearm would be mounted on the plinth (as usual) and the second is a compact plinth where they provide a seperate tonearm pillar to mount the tonearm. According to them the separate tonearm pillar version sounds more transparent and quieter because of the isolation of the tonearm from the TT. My concern is whether seperating the tonearm from the plinth would result in a lesser coherence in sound ? Isnt sharing the same platform results in a more well-timed, coherent presentation ? Any opinions ?
pani
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rauliruegas
13,106 posts
 
Dear @pani : """   who think like me including an audio designer... """

well, with all respect to him and you he is not a regarded TT/tonearm designer and for his posts neither an audiophile.

Please read the @halcro last post.

Btw, good that you was decided to know what to buy before you posted this thread. Tell us how good performs when received because looks very good.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
pani OP
1,219 posts
 
Pani,
Perhaps you should take note of an audio designer who actually designs and sells tonearms and turntables.....
Someone like Frank Kuzma who makes the 4 Point and Airline tonearms and whose top-of-the-line turntable uses a separate armpod.
I’d be hesitant in calling Frank a fool....
I am not challenging anyone’s hearing or designing capabilities. I am only saying that if I have to buy blind I will buy an integrated system rather than separates.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,942 posts
 
You apparently believe that all separate arm pillars are the same regardless of size, weight, construction, density and supports.
The only reason an arm pillar can
move in different planes and rates
is if it is inadequate.

They all have one thing in common: they relay on the surface on which they rest. If this surface has any motion that allows the pillar to move in a different plane than the bearing of the platter, it makes no difference how well the pillar is constructed. Its a basic engineering flaw. I have explained this before.
What was this pod that Atmasphere used and how is this motor noise relevant?
We are not talking about motor noise here! Please re-read my first two posts- I am wondering though if I need to clarify in some way due to the obvious misunderstandings I have encountered!

You are totally wrong because I'm asking for normal day by day listening enviroment in real home audio systems, I don't care about lathe or about your self targets. YOUR TARGETS ARE NOT THE AUDIOPHILE TARGETS. GOT IT?
Oh I got it alright. What you don't seem to understand is that the lathe is an extremely high quality turntable- one with a massive platter, massive plinth, extreme platform and powerful drive. But a turntable nontheless, and one that stands up to any turntable made today. You could easily use it for playback only. So you are incorrect- my targets are the audiophile targets. You need to understand this, but right now I am thinking that you have an monetary investment that prevents you from doing so.
well, with all respect to him and you he is not a regarded TT/tonearm designer and for his posts neither an audiophile.
Actually this statement is false as well. It might interest you to know that Tri Mai of Triplanar was an employee of mine years ago. Further, we've been selling a turntable for about 15 years. It started as a modified Empire 208. Its expanded beyond that now and the result is we have a copycat who was a customer of ours and the price of used Empire 208s has skyrocketed on our account. That sort of influence does suggest some regard. I'm also an audiophile- that's why I do these things. Please try to stick to the facts rather than creating hearsay.

What I have been discussing here is a pretty basic engineering principle. It is not hard to understand at all. Anyone with a mechanical engineering background will agree with me instantly. I suspect those that don't have a monetary investment that forces them to resist, but this would be like resisting Ohm's Law, if you will pardon the expression.
fleib
1,124 posts
 

I think there is a fly in this ointment:

**The reason is simple: if the platter has any other motion other than rotation (for example a slight up and down that might be imparted from the plinth due to room-borne vibration), if there is any difference between that and the base of the arm the cartridge will compensate (since the stylus has to stay in the groove) with stylus motion and therefore a coloration.**

Air borne vibration will hit the record/platter directly, as it also hits a plinth and arm. Any such vibration transmitted via the plinth will arrive after the event. How will this insure coincident behavior between arm and platter?

This isn't an automobile where both wheels are being turned at the same time. This is transmission of movement through time, and record rotation does not stop. It seems like this is the same old formula for sprung tables where movement must coincide.

Evidence or lack of, points to high quality and good execution as the winner. Think I'll go with Frank Kuzma and Torqueo Audio on this one.

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rauliruegas
13,106 posts
 
Dear @atmasphere :  """  but right now I am thinking that you have an monetary investment that prevents you from doing so. """

Wrong again, my very little investment has nothing to do with. This discussion is not a contest, here no one wins but all, so as usually in you don't try to win but to understand to some of us that in my case have a higher ignorance level than you.

As some others posted you are intuitive more than scientific in this subject.
No one of us audiophiles have a lathe at home but normal TTs but because in your  simple  " test " you say that appears a " coloration " then in any inferior/normal home audio system things must happen too. That's what you infere but can't prove it.


"""  Actually this statement is false as well.   """"

could be but I think that no audiophile in this thread know you as a " well regarded " TT/tonearm designer/manufacturer. Please no ofense intented, for me even what you posted still no well regarded TT/tonearm manufacturer at least not at the same level as you are as tube elctronic designer/manufacturer.

Anyway, thank's for your reply.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
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