2. cables
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Direction of aftermarket fuses (only for believers!)

It is with reluctance that I start another thread on this topic with the ONLY GOAL for believers to share their experience about aftermarket fuses.
To others: you can call us snobs, emperors w/o clothes,... etc but I hope you refrain posting just your opinion here. If you did not hear any difference, great, maybe there isn’t.

The main driver for this new post is that I am starting a project to mod my NAD M25 7 ch amp for my home theater. It has 19 fuses (2 per channel, 4 on the power supply board, 1 main AC) and I will try a mix of AMR Gold, SR Black and Audio Magic Platinum (anyway that is the plan, I may try out some other brands/models). As it is reasonably difficult to change them, esp the ones on each channel module that requires complete disassembly, I would like to know what the direction is for these models mentioned and of course, others who HAVE HEARD there is a difference please share your experience on any fuse model you have tried.

Fuses are IME directional:
Isoclean is one of the first to indicate the direction (2008/2009) on their fuses. Users of HiFi Tuning (when the awareness rose quite a bit amongst audiophiles) have mostly heard the difference.

As an IEEE engineer, I was highly skeptical of cabling decades ago (I like the speaker design of John Dunlavy but he said on many occasions that cables nor footers matter at all, WRONG!). Luckily, my curiosity proved me wrong as well. I see the same skepticism that I and many others had about the need for aftermarket cables many, many years ago now on fuses and esp on the direction on fuses.

Another example is the direction of capacitors (I do not mean electrolytic types). Even some manufacturers now and certainly many in the past did not believe it can make a difference sonically. Maybe some do but it takes time in the assembly to sort and put them in the right direction/order (esp as some of the cap manufacturers still do not indicate "polarity") so that maybe is one argument why this is not universally implemented.








jazzonthehudson
terry9
2,354 posts
 
Nice quote, Jea. I find the same thing when I quote mathematics. Everyone's ignorance trumps my expertise. Ah well.

geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
The Anti Cables discussion from their web site. Anti cables are unshielded.

"Wire Directionality?
As an electronic engineer I struggled with this topic for quite a while because it did not fit into any of the electrical models I have learned. It simply does not make sense that an alternating music signal should favor a direction in a wire. One of the great things about the audio hobby is that we seem to be able to hear things well before we can explain them; and just because we can’t explain something, does not mean it does not exist.

While wire directionality is not fully understood, it is clear that the molecular structure of drawn metal wire is not symmetrical and it is this physical difference which is consistent with which direction the wire sounds better. When the directionality is “backwards” there is a loss of resolution, cymbals sound like a spray-can and are truncated, voices are grainy and lack presences, and bass is less defined. When the wire directionality is “correct” the music is more relaxed, pleasant and believable. Once you hear the difference, you will never want to have to listen to wire backwards ever again.

All ANTICABLES products have the correct directionality marked with an arrow."

Nordost on the other hand apparently did not get the memo. From their FAQ page,

"When cables are manufactured they do not have any directionality. However, as they break in, they acquire directionality. Although the cable signal is an alternating current, small impurities in the conductor act as diodes allowing signal flow to be better in one direction over time. This effect is also called quantum tunneling, w hich has been observed in experiments over 25 years ago. Regardless of the purity of the metal used, there are still diode effects in all conductors. In addition, the insulation material will change when it is subjected to an electrical field."

cheers


geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

atmasphere
4,831 posts
06-01-2016 11:31am
Geoffkait: I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it appears your entire argument hinges on that statement, yet it is strictly hypothetical and specious.

To which Atmasphere replied,

"Not at all. I used the word ’might’ as with some fuseholders and fuses, the voltage drop stays about the same due to the alignment of the contacts. This easily explains why there are inconsistencies in reports."

Inconsistencies in reports? There are not inconsistencies in reports. Most reports are actually consistent.

Geoffkait: I also happen to be rather skeptical that anomalies in pressure or contact surface can actually explain the differences in soundstage, dynamics and tonality among other things that have been reported by many.

Atmasphere also wrote,

"Given your constant trolling, this such should come as no surprise. In your case I suspect its more profitable if the explanation remains mysterious and tricky to explain while using words like ’quantum’."

That makes no sense. The explanation is not mysterious. And I actually have not used the word quantum, at least not in this discussion. Are you afraid of the word quantum? Boo! Profitable? For me? Shirley you jest.

This whole discussion is an excellent illustration of the Backfire Effect, the phenomenon that occurs when someone clings to his original theory despite well constructed counter arguments and evidence to the contrary. The Backfire Effect becomes more and more pronounced as the evidence piles up, such that the person becomes more an more convinced in his mind he must actually be right.

have a nice day,

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica
advanced audio conceits
Post removed 
jea48
4,796 posts
 

atmashere said:

^^ You won’t have arcing- that would be audible! A small amount of arcing has a way of turning into a lot of it in a short period of time...

Well that depends. On the AC mains side it depends on the size of the conductors and or the surface area of conducting contacts, bus, ect, and is directly proportional to the connected load passing through the arcing connection. Example say a branch circuit consists of #12awg wire. The continuous connected load is only 1 or 2 amps. The wall receptacle is old and the contact pressure is poor when a plug is inserted into the receptacle. Or maybe the receptacle is fairly new and the homeowner didn’t tighten down one of the terminal screws on the neutral or hot branch circuit conductors making a good solid connection. Can/could there be a slight small amount of series arcing going on with the 1 or 2 amp connected load? Would a 1 or 2 amp load create a lot of heat in the connection of the #12 wire to the side terminal plate/screw of the receptacle? Could the surface area of the #12 wire and the receptacle screw/terminal plate/contact, and male blade of the plug dissipate the heat? Now all bets are off if the home owner plugs in a big power hungry amp into the receptacle..... (Note: If the branch circuit wiring is protected by an AFCI breaker the arc fault sensing device of the breaker may/will trip the breaker open. It would depends on the amount of series arcing going on.)

Arcing can cause/create RFI and can be transferred through a conductor or through the air. Can it be audible through an audio system speaker?


On the power supply side of the secondary side of the power transformer.

Best example is a cold solder joint. Not in the main DC rails necessarily, though that would probably be heard through the speakers. In that event it would more than likely eventually burn itself free creating an open circuit. But how about an arcing cold solder joint in a circuit that does not consume a lot of energy?

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