FR64s & Orsonic Av-1s Effective mass ?

Dear @lewm : A tonearm manufacturer " normally " makes his design for any kind of cartridge compliance included his kind of tonearm damping choice .

Feedback, vibrations, noises, resonances, distortions comes from everywhere ( TT platter, platter mat, LP, arm board, TT motor, air borne noise, etc, etc. ) in the room/audio system and the tonearm designer have to deal with all of them to achieve his tonearm targets.

Cartridge compliance is part of the cartridge suspension system that's " affected " by the suspension damping mechanism cartridge designer choosed and between other things the kind of dampers and damper build materials.

Each cartridge, independent of its compliance, has its own kind of vibrations/feedback/cartridge body ones, diferent compliance values only can change the amplitude or frequency where " vibrations/distortions can happen and of course tracking abilities.

In all type of cartridges a damped tonearm always helps against no damping at all.

Through our life, inside and out of audio world, we like several things that we know are wrong but we still are sticky to them.
Example: sugar/comercial chocolat are a human been " murderer " that always goes against our safety health but here we know is wrong and accept it ( does not matters that we go on eating sugar. ) and with the non damped tonearm we can't accept is wrong even with evidence against a damped designs.

What do we in the audio world?, nothing but try to be " self  convinced ) through that: " I LIKE IT " and that's all and that's why one gentleman posted here:

"  Raul is actually the only person I've ever heard who didn't think the FR-64S was an outstanding pickup arm. """


With that sentence he thinks is confirming he is rigth when in reality is wrong on that subject.

Anyway, as always a learning day.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

 

rauliruegas
" ...What do we in the audio world?, nothing but try to be " self  convinced ) through that: " I LIKE IT " and that's all and that's why one gentleman posted here:

" Raul is actually the only person I've ever heard who didn't think the FR-64S was an outstanding pickup arm. """

With that sentence he thinks is confirming he is rigth when in reality is wrong on that subject. "

Once again, Raul, you pretend to know what others are thinking when, in fact, you have enough trouble explaining yourself.

My remark that you quote means no more than it states: I've never conversed with anyone - other than you - that didn't get excellent results from the FR-64S pickup arm. And I allowed that, because you bought yours used, that might explain your confusion. When you buy used, it's difficult to know exactly what you're getting.

It's fine that you don't like the FR-64, Raul. I really don't care. But that others like it doesn't make them wrong. Your insistence that they are wrong is why I shall again return to ignoring you and the Pronouncements and Proclamations of Truth According to the Great Raul.

CLeeds, In all fairness to Raul, where do you go these days to buy a NEW FR64S?  In fact, so far as I know, Raul has owned his FR64S for a much longer period of time than I have owned mine; there's at least a chance that he DID buy his FR64S new.  I would wager that nearly all of us who have commented on this thread bought their FR tonearms as used items. I bought mine off eBay about 3-4 years ago, with "silver inside", from either 2juki or one of the other regular Japanese eBay sellers.  When I got it, the bearing was a little stiff.  Dertonearm advised me to just leave it in a warm place so as to allow the bearing lubricant to warm up, and indeed he was right; the problem just disappeared while the FR64S was sitting at room temperature in my house.  Other than a broken internal wire or a very stiff bearing that does not "thaw out", I don't know what else could go wrong with an FR64S that would not be immediately apparent.  Thus I conclude that Raul's opinion, whether we like it or not, is based on listening to a fully OK sample of the tonearm.
By the way, I am wondering whether the lubricant that evidently surrounds the bearing in fact does constitute a form of damping

@lewm I'd purchased my FR64S brand new back when I also bought the Oracle Delphi Mk. III that I mounted it on. That was a great combination and, as I've mentioned, I sold it to a friend who still uses it. It sounds great in his system. As for what might be wrong with a used arm, I suppose any form of abuse could have a negative effect on it. I don't mind at all that Raul doesn't like the arm, only that he thinks those who do are somehow "wrong" and subject to his derision. It seems to me that it's really a matter of preference, so there can be be no "wrong" choice. And of course the sound of a pickup arm is highly dependent on what it is mounted on, how it is mounted and for that matter who mounted it - because it's easy to get pickup arm alignment wrong.

Raul has proclaimed earlier in this thread that he loves distortion, so that may be another explanation for why he doesn't like the FR64S, because it is a relatively neutral pickup arm ... or at least it is the way I set it up.

I notice that these arms command quite a good price on the used market. That suggests that others, too, find it to be a good pickup arm.

Like you, I think there's more than one kind of damping. I think it's not quite accurate to consider an FR64 that's properly installed on its heavy VTA base and then mounted on a serious armboard as "undamped," but I'm certainly not going to argue with Raul about that or, for that matter, anything else.

@cleeds : """  It seems to me that it's really a matter of preference,  .."""

that's exactly where started your misunderstood on what I'm talking about.

I'm not talking about any one preferences or what we like but what is wrong or good that has no relationship with each one preferences and that's all. I posted that premise more than 4 times in this thread for no one could has a misunderstood on the subject as you did it.

I can't argue against your or any one preferences, that's untoachable by any one but, again, that's not what I'm talking about. Got it?

@lewm , I can't think to listen any single tonearm that present a bearing problem as yours where the tonearm bearing condition in 100% status is a must to have, a crucial parameter/characteristic/target for a good tonearm/cartridge quality performance level. Was a " surprise " to me when I read your post. Anyway, was your call and you like what you hear and this is your privilege.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.