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Recommnedations for moderately price balanced IC's, and adaptors to an RCA end

The title of  the thread may be a bit unclear. However, I need recommendations for a "moderately" price balanced interconnects.  Also, are there quality adaptors to convert a balanced end into an RCA input or output without major signal loss??

I want to use my Rogue Sphinx hybrid integrated as a pre-amp because it has a variable output (pre-out) for an second amplifier, and connect it to a Balanced Audio Technology VK-200 amp that will  only accept balanced. IC's  

The Rogue integrated has all RCA input and outputs .Therefore, I also need a recommendation for two XLR to RCA adapters.   Eventually, I will buy a separate pre-amp, possibly the new Rogue RP-1.  

Thank you  




sunnyjim
sunnyjim OP
927 posts
 

Al, Thank you for the corrections. I am sorry I misstated  your previous comments. As you can see despite being involved in audio for 40 years, I am ignorant of this XLR technology

Let me clarify. a few mistaken points I mentioned before either on this thread or previous one  I spoke to Mark O"Brien  at Rogue Audio today.  He informed me that "Line 3" of the Sphinx integrated is an input, not an output. There is an area on the back of the Rogue Sphinx sectioned off that has a variable and fixed output  The "variable" output is the one he recommended for hooking up the BAT VK-200 amp,  So you have out of the pre-amp stage into the BAT amp, and the signal travels through the speaker wires to the speaker.  OK. 

I also mentioned to Mark what you noted about losing signal strength up to approx 50 %, and Mogami 's claim that using an XLR to RCA connector will not reduce the noise produced by an RCA to RCA IC.  It will stay the same.  Mark is not a fan of XLR ICs. More or unless claiming they will produce only some reduction of noise. He also noted that a fully balanced pre-amp will cost a lot of money. A member however claims there is a BAT 31SE for sale on AG for $1000.  (Hare to believe, unless it is an "as is" piece).

I don't really  do not need a fully balanced pre-amp  According to you, just  I will need two cable XLR outputs for the BAT amp, and two XLR output cables from the Ayre CD player to the  XLR inputs on the pre-amp.  I hope I got this correct this time


BTW, I believe on another thread, I was asking about the variable output. and you consulted the Sphinx manual.  I responded to both you  and  think "Mensch",  but my response was lost in Audiogon cyberspace.

In this lost e-mail, I mentioned that I had called Rogue, and was told by one of the techs  that variable( pre-out) output runs through an "op-amp", and not the "tubed" section of the Sphinx pre-amp stage. He also noted the sound may not be quite as good, with a minimal loss of sound quality. O'Brien more or less confirmed the same fact to me in today's conversation  I mentioned in my e-mail that unless I am wrong the so-called pre-out  was not a true or standard pre-out like the one in the Creek 5350SE Classic which I owned about 7 years ago, using it with a pair of Red Dragon M-500 Class D mono block amps. 

However, I don't know if  op-amps are a standard design component for pre-amp outs on integrated amps in which you can separate the amp from the pre-amp stage.  O'Brien claims that using variable pre-out on the Sphinx will still allow control of volume and other features on the integrated amp

BTW, I mentioned  before that about one year ago, I changed out the two standard tubes in the Sphinx to Mullards 4003CV tubes. This was recommended by a member who claimed it cut "much" of the glare, and brightness from the sound which was an artifact of the Hypex spinoff of class D amplification. It did work as billed by the member.  

NOTE:  the Sphinx v.1 manual is poor. There is no photos or line drawings of the back of the amp. They can do better!

I think I am somewhat back to Square One because one of benefits of XLR to XLR interconnects was the reduction of noise.  I did buy the BAT VK-200 amp The deal was too good to turn down.  Thanks again for all you advice and comments....... Jim   

mesch
3,476 posts
 
Check out CablesOnline.com. I purchased a pair of RCA to XLR cables from them to connect a DAC to a headphone amp. I found them on E-bay. I thought them to be of good quality for the price (~$20/pair).

This would allow you to use your Sphinx as a pre with the BAT amp while looking for your pre of choice without feeling the need to jump to fast. I think you have found a great amp. One deserving of the right pre. Once the right combination is found I am confident you won't miss the Sphinx, itself a good product for the $$. 
midareff1
182 posts
 
I'd recommend you search eBay for used balanced IC's of the brand you REALLY want. Setting an eBay search will get you emails when something comes up.  A few months ago I got an email about a single 18 foot XLR cable from the brand I wanted. $168 delivered got me what would have been about $1K new. Fortunately, the company that manufactures them is about a 30 minute drive away.  They re-terminated them for me into (I bi-amp) 4 XLR to double single ended jumpers for amps that run balanced by double single ended (vintage Sumo) and a 2.5 meter XLR pair.

Be very aware of if you are splitting XLR to two +/- rcas or two which are +/ground, -/ground.
almarg's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
almarg
9,670 posts
 
Hi Jim,
He informed me that "Line 3" of the Sphinx integrated is an input, not an output. There is an area on the back of the Rogue Sphinx sectioned off that has a variable and fixed output The "variable" output is the one he recommended for hooking up the BAT VK-200 amp
Yes, that is what I had said in one of your other recent threads.

In this lost e-mail, I mentioned that I had called Rogue, and was told by one of the techs that variable( pre-out) output runs through an "op-amp", and not the "tubed" section of the Sphinx pre-amp stage. He also noted the sound may not be quite as good, with a minimal loss of sound quality. O’Brien more or less confirmed the same fact to me in today’s conversation I mentioned in my e-mail that unless I am wrong the so-called pre-out was not a true or standard pre-out like the one in the Creek 5350SE Classic which I owned about 7 years ago, using it with a pair of Red Dragon M-500 Class D mono block amps.

However, I don’t know if op-amps are a standard design component for pre-amp outs on integrated amps in which you can separate the amp from the pre-amp stage. O’Brien claims that using variable pre-out on the Sphinx will still allow control of volume and other features on the integrated amp

Yes, we had discussed that in your other thread I linked to above. The hope and expectation, that seems reasonably consistent with the comments by Mark and by the Rogue tech you spoke with previously, is that the implementation of the Sphinx’s variable pre-out, while less than ideal, should be good enough to allow you to benefit from the power amp upgrade, and provide you with reasonably good results in the near term. Note the word "minimal" in the comment by the Rogue tech, with Mark apparently having commented similarly.

I don’t think it would be meaningful to think of the op amp implementation of that output as being "true or standard" or not "true or standard." It is simply one way of implementing a pre-out, and I’d feel certain that approach is not unique to Rogue.
I think I am somewhat back to Square One because one of benefits of XLR to XLR interconnects was the reduction of noise. I did buy the BAT VK-200 amp The deal was too good to turn down.
I don’t think you went wrong, by any means. The noise reduction that can be provided by a balanced interface (and also its reduced susceptibility to ground loop issues, that may cause high frequency noise as well as low frequency hum), is probably not a significant issue in the majority of home audio setups. That potential benefit can be expected in most cases to be overshadowed by differences in the quality of the particular component designs. And specifically in the case of many components that are not "fully balanced" but provide balanced interfaces, that potential benefit can often be outweighed by implementation of the balanced interface that is sonically compromised in the interest of keeping costs down. Such as by the use of a cheap op amp to generate one of the two signals in the balanced signal pair, by inverting the other one.

I would expect an Ayre or BAT fully balanced preamp to be a great choice, if you can find one at a suitable price point and in top condition. That’s a big "if," of course. But within your price range a preamp having an unbalanced internal signal path while providing XLR inputs and outputs might turn out to be easier to find and (depending on the specific design) a comparably satisfactory choice.

Good luck. Best regards,
-- Al

erik_squires
16,042 posts
 
There are two approaches to converting. One is to simply use the + and - leads as the center and shield in the RCA end.  This is the simplest way when your source is balanced.

The other is to use a high quality transformer such as from Jensen Transformers.  This is the best solution when your destination requires a balanced input but your source is not. It also solves ground loop issues.  Many like the sound too.

I believe you can also find simple, direct adapters using the first solution. Both should be available through Jensen.
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