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What is more accurate: magnetic anti-skating, or barrel weight attached a fishline?

I have seen turntables from Project, Music Hall, and a few other brands that still incorporate a small barrel weight attached to short fishline string which is stretched across a hooking loop to set ANTI-SKATING. It seems to be an artifact from the 1960's and 1970's tonearm design. It is also easy to lose or break 

My question is how accurate is that "device" compared to magnetic anti-skating employed by many turntable manufacturers   Thank you

sunnyjim
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,531 posts
 
Sonnyjim....I agree with lewn.   Either use a very little a/s or none...but listen to your music with enjoyment.  A/S is a tiny accomodation to the setup.  Overhang adjustment, VTF, and proper azimuth means so much more.
mmakshak
589 posts
 
As I remember it, I backed off anti-skate incrementally from what appeared(both channels sounded equal-in a way) to be a "correct" anti-skate setting, and the result was an increase in the life(liveness?) of the music, and, therefore, to a more correct setting.  That shows the danger of using something(anti-skate) to correct for something else(unequal channel balance).  It is best to play with "settings" enough to see what those do, and not base settings on other things.
danvignau's avatar
danvignau
935 posts
 

It seems that my Signet arm has a bias built in for the record radius. A weight is at the end of an arm that is leveraged differently depending on the tone arm position. There is very little difference, but it is measurable.

The answer to the question is the better designed one of any type. Even a perfectly designed spring could work quite well.. 

ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 

danvignau

It seems that my Signet arm has a bias built in for the record radius. A weight is at the end of an arm that is leveraged differently depending on the tone arm position. There is very little difference, but it is measurable.

The answer to the question is the better designed one of any type. Even a perfectly designed spring could work quite well..


well said and based on my experiences I agree with you. The jokes about the fishing lines aside, whether string/line, magnets, springs, a well executed design that can be setup easily works. I have found a lesser design set up well, will out perform a "better design" not set up well.
So a design that lets you set up and forget is critical to just get on and listen to the music.


Lewm - No matter how you slice it, LPs rule.


It is safe to say this here. This is a partisan group.
But if you read the posts on this thread, or any other of the 2000 plus threads that deal with being "anxious" about anti skating ;
if I was only digital, I would be staying digital.
Just saying.

Rauliruegas

I did it with 3-4 LT in my system


7,630 posts Raul and not one that I have seen that offers to share information or shows any ability to set up a LT tonearm.

I am referring only to Air Bearing LT tonearms; their Achilles Heel is needing clean, dry air. For this reason being in Mexico, I assuming you used other LT types. Pls share some info and enlighten us on one of the LT threads. I like learning and, I still do own pivot tonearms.


The thread’s quote, so far for me, from Stringreen.

"VPI’s Antiskate gizmo"

priceless.
big smile.

Enjoy the music.
andrei_nz
192 posts
 
Tangency (null points) is not enough to eliminate skating force. Lew says it quite well, but maybe it needs to be said a different way as well.

Skating force is the vector sum of the forces of the record "dragging the stylus in a generally forward direction". Forces sum and cancel each other.

The amount of drag and its direction is a function of groove friction and geometry. The friction part is what makes it tricky, because this in turn, is a function of record velocity (changes across the record), the dynamics of the musical passage (varying resistance to larger "wiggles" in the groove), the condition of the vinyl, the shape and polish of the stylus, and ... I'm probably forgetting something, but you get the picture.

Here's a visualization that might help (and spare you the vector math): 

  • Hold your left arm out in front of you (horizontally) with your palm facing toward the right.
  • Bend your wrist so your fingers point further to the right, so it resembles the headshell/cartridge offset.
  • Have someone tug on your fingertip in a direction parallel to your bent hand.
This is our null point case. Your hand will move to the right (skating force).

So, even at the null point, there's some skating force.

As Raul and others have correctly stated, there is no single correct anti-skate setting for your rig because of the frictional factors I mentioned in the third paragraph. 

Cheers,Thom @ Galibier Design

I have always imagined there are two different forces involved.  One, is as you describe, due to the offset of the headshell.  The second due to the "North - South" position of the headshell.

Imagine if you will a circle bisected horizontally through the center.  The line running from the left to the center, or at least towards the center is the line a Tangential Arm would track.  Assume a nine inch arm.  Now imagine a six inch arm.  It will be forced to the left because at that position the clockwise rotation is pushing to the left.  Likewise imagine a 12 inch arm.  This time it will be pushed to the right (towards the center).  

So to my way of thinking: before the first null point and after the second null point there will be some force away from the center towards the left edge.  Between the null points there will be force towards the center.

Then summing these two forces: Between the null points there will be a relatively strong center pull.  Outside the null points there will be a weak pull, though in what direction and how weak I could not say.
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