Since you obviously enjoy restoring vintage equipment I expect you will enjoy the idler restoration project as well. These tables are in high demand and prices for a Rek-O-Kut or Garrard 301 will very likely not come down - so your project should be a good investment. Once you experienced the sound characteristics of a good idler drive you will not want to give them up again. And you will be able to listen for these qualities in other designs. Either way, you can only win. I did the same with a Garrard 301 and learned a lot about the importance of the drive system in regards to sound. Even though I ended up replacing the Garrard, I knew what sound characteristics I was looking for. But you may very well stay with your Rek-O-Kut, if the weaknesses of the idler drive system don’t bother you. I’d say go for it!
What's the deal with idler turntables and do they have a place in modern HiFi?
After going through a complete overhaul of an AR XA I've been tempted to take a step further back in history and restore an old Rek-O-Kut idler turntable. Can't remember the particular model number from Craigslist, but it seems like it may be an interesting project and far more customizable than the XA, especially when it come to the tonearm. The one I'm looking at comes with the original tonearm, but my guess is that it's even more garbage than the stock XA 'arm and I'd certainly replace it!
However, I don't generally become invested in something if it doesn't pay off. So if the sound is going to be dreadful because it's an idler, then I'll steer clear. But if the sound is bitchin' then I'll jump on the opportunity!
However, I don't generally become invested in something if it doesn't pay off. So if the sound is going to be dreadful because it's an idler, then I'll steer clear. But if the sound is bitchin' then I'll jump on the opportunity!
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don_c55, I have a Dual 1229, a Garrard 301, and am restoring a EMT 927. None of these has any audible rumble or noise. After having several nice belt drive tables (Linn LP12, Ariston rd11, Thorens TD165, and Thorens td 125), none of those could hold the pace, pitch or power of my idler driven tables. The Dual is so quite and the background so black it's incredible. I use a Grace 747 with that table and it's wonderful. The Garrard is a freaking legend and it too is incredible. No table that I know will best the EMT 927, at least not to me. mjperry, I wouldn't recommend a Rec O Kut as a first venture into idler drive. Try a Thorens td 124, or a Dual 1229, or a Garrard 301, or a 401. If you try a Dual, I recommend replacing their very nice but not so flexible tonearm with a Grace or a SME. Experiencing a well tuned idler drive table is quite addicting. Unless you're going to venture into five figure turntables, they are really hard to beat. Norman |
Thanks for the kind words, Charles. We all continue to learn, and the untapped "goodness" in idlers certainly caught me by surprise. That Dagogo review is beginning to look dated, although I stand by my comments that rigid belt coupling gets you a large part of the rim drive sound. Direct and idler/rim drive are definitely not for everyone (what architecture or product is?), as they have a different set of virtues and drawbacks. larryi: Since my experiments began with identical drive systems (motor, controller, bearing and 33 Lb. Gavia platter), I can safely say that it's not about massive torque (relatively high, but not massive). The first thing that jumped out at me was the difference in time that it takes for the platter to lock speed (observed with both Feickert software as well as a Sutherland Timeline). The idler locked in much more quickly. It's pretty clear that we're hearing control of the braking motion - what would be the "back" or "slack" end of the belt that the idler idler is grabbing control of, but which a belt isn't capable of doing. If you buy into the concept that both acceleration and braking need to be controlled (or alternatively, that a drive system needs to be immune to both of these forces), then none of this should come as a surprise. Given how we've learned that a stylus tracking at 2 gm. can modulate the speed of even a massive platter, we shouldn't be surprised that some speed control benefits could be gained. Of course, the questions remain as to how audible this is, how it's perceived, and how musically significant it is. From initial auditions of late stage Eiger prototypes, people are noticing the differences in presentation, and are definitely split in their preferences. I'm really excited to return to the Eiger, and as soon as I get my head out of the NiWatt amplifier design (Labor Day?), I'm looking forward to returning my focus to the Eiger. There's a lot of untapped potential, and it's been patiently awaiting my attention. Cheers, Thom @ Galibier Design |
thom_mackris
Given how we've learned that a stylus tracking at 2 gm. can modulate the speed of even a massive platter ...I've seen this claim before, but never seen any proof of it. I've measured the speed of my turntable with it 22-pound platter as it plays an LP and never detected this sort of speed deviation. |
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