Lyra Atlas experiences

Dear atmasphere: I'm talking of full tube active high gain designs. I don't care in the same unit how performs against the aux input. I'm comparing against a well SS top designed unit.

You have to defend what you have on sale and is your business.


"""  the solid state signature so far has been the most annoying. """"

with all respect your statement makes me think you still lives in the " stone era " because with well SS designed units it's totally untrue what you stated.

I live in México city and in one of my trips to USA we had a test in a prety decent audio system where by coincidence the electronics came from from you.
We were there 4-5 gentlemans that knowed ( other than the system owner. ) extremely well that audio system with LP tracks all knowed as their finger of their hands ( all of then tube lovers. ) and when we made it a change of unit in the Phonolinepreamp system link for a SS unit ( was the only change. ) they did not have to wait 3-4 LP tracks but from the very first one its opinion was unanimous: that SS unit outperforms yours by a very wide margin.

Btw, months latter the owner of that system bougth a SS unit in that system link and is what he has today. No more tubes in that system link.

I don't care if you still live in the " arcaic times ". Life changes every single day, everything is in movement and audio too and SS technology designs grow up a lot and you did not know this fact and obviously you don't know even today. As I said I don't care.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear @o_holter : "  I am willing to sacrifice a few db in the noise floor to get superior tube performance. "

with all respect that is a plain misunderstood. Exist no superior tube performance but additioal distortions, that's what you have it does not matters tht that's what you like because that's not the main subject.

It's not only about higher noise, look: the input cartridge signal travel inside your unit or a SS unit. In your unit exist at least 5-6 circuit stages where the signal must pass and at each circuit stage that signal is degraded ( we can't do nothing about, no one can stop the signal degradation. ) in a well designed SS Phonolinepreamp ou can do the same in no more than 3 stages ( all depend in the designer abilities. ), so te signal degradation is a lot lower and that's why I said that what you like is only those additional distortions ( not only higher noise levels. ).

Tubes are not for an active high gain phono stage ( as a fact is not for today demanding audio. ), no one can defend what has no defense. Forgeret what the " experts " said and say, I live for years with tubes till I fall in count that all what those " tube experts " try to sale or to educate  was totally untrue.

What road takes a phono stage designer, in reality two roads: hybrid designs or SUT as a pasive gain. In the first alternative the rough/hardest phono stage cartridge signal path is made it by the first SS stage in that hybrid design: with out this gain stage there is no phono stage at all and the same is true in those designs  that use SUTs as the high gain stage. Is that high gain stage what puts the unit signature that tubes degraded in higher levels than same SS circuits.

For years the " tube experts/reviewers " try to sale us their arcaic " ideas " with out take not that the audio world already change it for the better and not because tubes but even with tubes there are great and better SS alternatives. As a music lovers and audiophiles we have to grow up and enjoy our today times that are bettter than ever before. Tubes is not the answer is the today wrong answer.

No one has to feeel " bad " for those facts because that's the reality.

There are several examples around and subwoofers is a good one. You have to ask your self: why does not exist powered subwoofers using an external tube amps?, because it can't handle with the rigthness and aplomb only SS can and that's all and this means: tight low bass, with full feeled power and no overhang, taut bass, precise and well defined note by note, efortless feeling, uncolored sound, etc.

Anyway, I'm not against tubes ( as I said I live with and heard in my system several touted tube designs as the Audio Note  Kondo and the like. ), things are that I learned.

I'm not trying to diminish any tube audiophile system, no this is not my attitude.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Btw, I never was an Audio Note owner. I had in my system for almost a month the Ongaku ( over 100K. ) because the M´+exico distributor of this and other audio items was a close friend of mine as were other audio México dealers whom marketed: AR, C-J, Manley, Air Tigth and other very well regarded tube electronics.

I can say for sure that I know very well tube electronics " restrictions/limitations " that can't honor what MUSIC deserves.

To understand what MUSIC deserves we have to take in count two things:

how and which kind of sounds we have in a live music performance. Example in a concert music hall exist no adjectives used and touted by tube lovers as: softness, non agresive, non annoying, full soundstage and the like.
You can have that kind of quality sound if you are seated at 50 m. from the stage source, but this is not MUSIC. When we are seated at a few m. the MUSIC has a natural agresiveness, power, definition, precision and rigthness. Sometimes stridency.
Any piano player knows this and try to listen a trumpet player at normal levels seated at say 2-3 m. and you will undrstand what I mean.

the other thing is that what we have in the LP recordings was captured/pick-up for microphones even nearer to the source as we can't do it in a hall, sometimes very near field as in almost all the Three Blind Mice Recordings.

Only top well designed SS electronics can gives us the " reality " tubes only can gives you what you are accustom to that has nothing to do with that live MUSIC characteristics.

R.

Raul.....I am using s/s Ayre components.....These seem to work with any cartridge I've had on my table....Benz LPS, Ortofon Windfield, Lyra Atlas and Etna, etc.  Today I listened to a digital LP of the Bernstein Mahler 2nd.....the depth, air, and ease was simply outstanding.

Raul, my experience is different. I went from solid state to tubes, and have not looked back. It wasn't experts who told me this, it was my ears.