"Vintage" high end gear vs new and upgrade path?


I'm pondering a couple issues that relate to each other.  Let's start with vintage vs new part.   The system is ripped straight from the 90's but was pretty much a Stereophile "A" class setup in its day.  Here it is: 

  • Rega P3 with numerous upgrades & Exact 2 cartridge (new)
  • Threshold FET10/pc phono preamp,
  • Sonic Frontiers SFT-1 => Assemblage D2D-1 ==> SFD-2 Mk3
  • Krell KBL preamp (recapped) ==> ML No. 332 amp  (recapped)
  • Maggie MGIIIa's (recent factory rebuild)
  • Music server (repurposed HP server) w/ Asus Xonar card feeding D2D-1
Issue 1:  Have >>analog<< electronics really improved much in the last 25 years?  My sense is that the lower and midrange gear is better, but does that translate to the high end?  This stuff sounds pretty damn good and I'm skeptical that I'd be able to make much improvement without spending vast sums of $$.  What would the weak link be here?

Issue 2:  Despite improvements in digital I'm also skeptical about how much real sonic improvement there has been in high end DACs, especially when it gets beyond 24b/96khz source material (system above is good up to 24/96).  I'm also skeptical about the claimed improvements from DSD over PCM, so I'm ignoring that for the time being.   Obviously connectivity, music servers, the digital audio chain and computer anything has improved greatly and is vastly cheaper than in 1995.  But how far does that actually extend to the sonics?  My sense is not so much.

At the end of the day I'm interested in any upgrade(s) that would create a real, hair-on-the-back-of-your-neck improvement without spending $10k.  But I've convinced myself that so much of what I read about would be only yield an incremental sonic improvement, and maybe even a downgrade.  I need a strategy - which might just be "leave it alone and just enjoy."  Any comments welcome, thanks.
raueda1
From reading your question and revealing your impressions it pretty much mirrors my experiences and biases for the most part. I believe your analog front end could certainly be improved upon but at what price and are you willing to pay it?

I am of the firm belief that electronics HAVE NOT improved that much over the past 25 years, at least I can’t hear it. Passive components that make up those electronics certainly have in many cases. I currently have two vintage era components and they are have both been upgraded with newer parts, including capacitors, resistors, diodes, wiring etc with dramatic improvements. Of course the key here is starting with components that were good to begin with in which case you certainly have. Digital on the other hand HAS improved and might be the biggest bang for the buck improvement you can make.

Sometimes "better" and "improved" are really synonyms for "preferred". In my particular case I definitely prefer my upgraded 25 year old preamp compared to 5 different newer ones I’ve listened to in my system 3 of which are current. The upgrades made a big improvement but I wouldn’t have sprung the cost if I didn’t really like what I was hearing to begin with. So that should be the first question you might ask in going forward, do you really like what you have but want to improve on it? In which case it is a lot easier than switching out things to "improve" with a less certain outcome.

The points BDP24 makes are valid as well, some products made in the past would be prohibitively expensive to manufacture today although might be preferred to current offerings. In your case I would focus on less expensive tweeking that could certainly improve on what you have without overspending and see what happens. The key thing I have come to realize is that what at first may seem an improvement may later be seen as an unwelcome intrusion! Things aren’t always what they seem as witnessed by the constant "improvements" that audiophiles strive to achieve. Sustained enjoyment of recorded music should be the end goal and is the only thing that matters in the long run.


You'll be forever chasing your tail unless you establish a frame of reference. If it's the recreation of live music, for example, then what venue... a nightclub... first tier center Lincoln Center? Once you establish that then you can easily judge what component helps or hurts -- regardless of the sonic gymnastics or the technology. That's the best strategy I can think of and the one I've always used. I have been using the same speakers and amplification front end for over 20 years.
I think the capacitors in the vintage gear has, for the most part, really been improved upon. Not sure about the circuits.

At the very least, replacing coupling caps in tube preamps is usually a big deal.

If I had a Sonic Frontiers 2 or 3 with upgrades, I would have a very difficult time finding any preamp I thought sounded meaningfully better.

As for PCM, I can't hear any better beyond 96/24. I seem to slightly like DSD better, but even with a DSD DAC, I whince at the file sizes. MQA for me is pure snake oil with no noticeable improvements I could not attribute to re-mastering.

What I will say is that the current crop of DAC's is usually always pretty smooth and dynamic. It's worth listening.

Best,


Erik
Thanks to all of you for your comments.  Seems like you're all kind of confirming my own feelings, or at least that we're all more or less of the same mind.  It's worth elaborating a little.....

I don't actually listen to the analog all that much and I'm no longer in the business of collecting vinyl.  I kind of view the Rega setup as "the capability to be able to play vinyl" rather than as a core listening mode.  Now, perhaps that's because the P3/Exact 2 combo just doesn't quite deliver (it's hard for me to swallow that the Threshold pre-preamp is a weak link).  In that case maybe I'm not really excited about vinyl because I haven't heard it right.  So, that said, I guess there's only one way to find out. :-)  Thanks for pointing out a pathway.

Digital, on the other hand, is 99% of my listening and another story altogether.  I can't say that I'm dissatisfied with it in any way.  The biggest variable, by far, is the quality of the source material.  When it's good the listening experience is jaw dropping.  It's fun to sit down MP3-listening youngsters and say "Just listen to this!"   They invariably react like they'd been seeing in black and white their whole lives and just acquired color vision.  It's a magic ear candy. 

Anyway, the digital upgrade path is still murky. The SFD-2 MK3 + D2D-1 combo was regarded as spectacular in it's day, but that day was long ago.  It's also pretty esoteric equipment - not many were made in the first place and they haven't actually been heard by many people.  Good luck finding a review for the SFD-2 MK3.  Comparisons with current or "better" gear are impossible to come by.   Comparing to older stuff, Mark Levinson No. 36 for example, isn't very helpful either (and I'd think that a No. 36 owner would be in much the same boat that I'm in.).  

Other challenges:  I'm gradually transitioning to my music server as the primary source.  The current system can handle 24b/96khz PCM, which is fine for my old ears.  But before shelling out  a lot of $$ I'd like to find some way to make educated guesses on what to look for.  Listening to gear in other systems is pointless IMO and I'm not really in a position to audition equipment - no local high end shops or audiophile community. 

Thanks again and keep the ideas coming!