2. analog
  3. 126251-489

My final table , hopefully !

Back in the 80's I was seduced to the digital side ! At first it was lovely . But then , I became hooked , it got cold and ugly .  After a lot of work and many years , I was able to get onto the recovery road to analogdom .

I returned with a MMF 5.1 turntable and stock cartridge . Oh that warm cozy feeling , I missed you so ! 

 But now , as luck would have it , I want MORE !  More dynamics , more detail , more extension , more rich tone and above all else more of that sensuous musicality . I've grown old , fat and out of shape since I quit tapping my toes , bobbing my head , playing air guitar & and dancing around the room ! I'm greedy and I want it all !

Unfortunately , my addictions have forced me to the land of the small budget . I need to stay in the 2K + 3K range . If I can trade in my MMF 5.1 table and cartridge , that would help .


I would like to spend a majority of my money on the table and arm . I need a faithful dog , a table that will stick with me through thick & thin and never leave my side . To grow older with me without the need for attention . I am a set it & forget it / plug n play kind of guy . I want to listen to music , not futz with stuff . I am not able to go out and hear a lot of stuff so my ideas come from the net ...and my help comes from you !

I have read that different manufacturers tables have different sound characteristics . How much of this can be attributed to the arm and cartridge used ? How much can it be altered ? I prefer classic rock , singers & songwriters , contemporary blues , Detroit soul and classical . Not much for Disco ,  Rap , Techno or Hip Hop .

While most tables have an upgrade path , I would like to refrain from taking it . Again the plug n play / set it & forget it attitude .


Here is what I have come up with , in no special order :

VPI Prime - the most expensive , comes with the 3D arm .

Well Tempered Amadeus MKII - comes with the golf ball arm .

Avid Diva II

Sota Saphire V - no real need for a suspension system as I am on a slab .

Sota Saphire III - refurbished , again no real need for the suspension system . 

Origin Live Calypso MkIII

Looking at the Jelco 750D arm for some of these tables .


Thank You .

Saki70


saki70
larryi
4,335 posts
 

Moonglum,

Good to hear that your table is working so well for you.  As I said, I never had problems with my HW19 and it is still going strong in someone else's hands.  My mild concern with VPI is not with the number of models, but, rather, with how often they adopt and then discard various basic approaches to design--frequent changes in the composition/construction of platters, changes in bearing design (regular bearings and inverted bearings), short-term adoption of idler/rim drive combined with belt drive, standalone flywheel, direct drive motor, etc.  They may be good at adopting new innovations, but, one has to wonder if they have taken the full measure of such things before they adopt them and then when they discard them.  Still, it is the result that matters and the tables I heard sound pretty good.

As to the floating magnetic bearing of the Clearaudio tables, that approach has been used before by some VERY good table manufacturers, such as Verdier and Gabriel.  Other high end tables float the platter using air instead of magnetic levitation, but, it is for the same purpose--to reduce noise generation/transmission cause by the weight of the platter grinding away on the thrust-plate of the bearing.  I suppose there could be an issue of the platter moving up and down, however slight that might be, but that would be a tradeoff made to reduce bearing noise.  I know of a few tables that actually use partial magnetic levitation to reduce, but not eliminate, the contact pressure on the thrust-plate which appears to be a compromise approach.

barbapapa
244 posts
 
For my first serious TT I bought a used Linn LP12  with Walhalla PSU ar a very very good price. I paid attention having the good second generation Elos tonearm.
Over time, when funds were there I upgraded it and in a few years I had a very good TT that gave me very good music pleasure.
 This is a way you could  opt for,knowing Linn will always be here for very good servce and you can find every pieces of old models for repair or upgrade and make your own way at your own rythm.
Believe me at his best, and when well aligned, this is a serious music machine, whatever anti Linn can tell.

terry9
2,354 posts
 
How does the TT affect the sound? A bit like digital.

To my ears, digital sounds dry and harsh compared to analogue. Turntables extend the spectrum towards the natural. Inexpensive and poorly designed TT tend to sound a bit harsh, accentuating each pop and tick, and lots of surface noise. The better the TT, the more refined the sound, the easier to listen to, the more defined the different parts of the melodic line.

I just did this exact exact experiment. I have an expensive, highly regarded, modified, belt drive turntable mounting a Trans-Fi arm and a Koetsu. I mounted a second Trans-Fi arm on a quality 1980's DD, transferred the Koetsu, and played. The DD seemed relatively coarse and noisy, with no redeeming features. That is, seemed to me.

When I finished building my air bearing turntable, I repeated the experiment by mounting the second Trans-Fi on that, and playing the Koetsu.

While I was expecting to hear a difference, I was unprepared for the magnitude of that difference. Not only was noise lower, but highs were purer and bass was tighter. Resolution improved significantly: on one record, there is an interlude of whistling, which had seemed like one performer in some parts, and two performers in others. With the air bearing table, I hear three distinct performers at all times. My wife concurs.

Hope that helps, Saki.

terry9
2,354 posts
 
Further to the above, I should have noted that the Trans-Fi is made to order for this kind of test, in that the arm wand carries the cartridge and the azimuth adjustment. VTA and tangentiality settings are obvious. Thus when you change wands, your settings are preserved.

orpheus10
8,668 posts
 

Terry9, while I'm familiar with the different sounds of cartridges in the same price range, I'm not familiar with the different sounds of turntables in the same price range. Since you seem to have had a number of tables, could you comment on the different ones that were rated Class A or B by Stereophile.

Although those ratings are not etched in stone, I consider them valid, and that's from experience.

Most people compare apples to oranges by comparing a more expensive table to a less expensive table, but I'm talking about different tables in the same price range, as well as in the same Stereophile rating range.

If you have that much experience, I'll be looking forward to your answer.
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