Jazz for aficionados

Learsfool:

Nuts and Bolts is a term I use to reflect an attitude. And that is, that playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that along, can make a player great.

You and The Frogman have a habit that drives me nuts. You misquote me, and then shoot down the misquote!

I was speaking of great players being asked about, not so great, or unknown players. "What do you think of so & so?"
Answer: Oh man, he is a great player. I wish I had him in my band. He will be the best someday. etc......

They will never say anything negative about a player regardless of that player's skill or potential. Why?
I think it's just because they are all nice guys. And they were not born great, so they know what it's like to struggle.

I cannot imagine any musician, other than so-called Rock musicians, being anything other than nice human beings.

Cross-genre? You are correct. They all respect each other. The great ones. Beverly Sills once said that Ella Fitzgerald had the most perfect voice she had ever heard. She was not being nice. Just factual. And I am sure the feeling was mutual.

My comments were about the great, being asked about the not so great, and unknown. And Nuts and Bolts, as I use it, means, if anything, a school of thought. Sort of like saying, you can go to school and learn how to be a great Jazz player. You can't. If you could, I would be one. :)

Cheers

Learsfool:

Berlin vs Austin. I just used an extreme example in my attempt to make sure The Frogman understood my question. I was trying to find out if the musical scores, for all Orchestras, regardless of rank, were the same. I was not trying to compare Austin to Berlin in any other manner.

Thanks for dissing Central Texas. I'll have you know that Austin is the Live Music Capitol of the World. Don't believe it? Ask them!

Cheers

Learsfool, I am glad you chimed in about that. I was going to after first reading the comment about Juilliard, but frankly I was almost in a state of disbelief at the comment and all I could muster was my "retort" about Wynton having also attended Juilliard. I certainly agree with your comments.

This topic has come up before in this thread and I am mystified at the apparent insistence that somehow jazz players don't require or, at least benefit greatly from, the kind of study and dedication to music theory, instrumental rudiments, purposeful honing of rhythm via intense practice, and many other ingredients of good musicianship (the nuts and bolts) the way that classical players do; that somehow the authenticity of jazz is diminished if the player does that. Obviously, that is simply not true and points to a very sophomoric understanding of what making music is about. The great jazz players were relentless practicers and voracious students of all aspects of music.

The Frogman / Learsfool:

Why not submit a list, for us aficionados, of GREAT Jazz players, who were great, BECAUSE, they went to Juilliard.

Cheers

Rok, c'mon. We don't have a habit of misquoting you nor of shooting down anything. The truth is that when discussing these topics you are not a particularly good communicator via what you write. Example:

****Nuts and Bolts is a term I use to reflect an attitude. And that is, that playing music in accordance with some musical theory, and that along, can make a player great.****

Huh! If you mean this then it would go counter to everything that you have said previously about the subject.

First of all, "nuts and bolts" is not an attitude. From the first time that I used that term I have been very clear about its intended meaning: study of the rudiments of musicianship and being an instrumentalist or vocalist; music theory, rhythm, the mechanics of playing an instrument (including one's voice) etc. ALL players, regardless of genre, have to do that in order to achieve greatness. So, for the sake of clarity and for a discussion to not to turn into an incoherent mess, we should stick to that meaning of the term.

****I cannot imagine any musician, other than so-called Rock musicians, being anything other than nice human beings.****

Don't you understand how ridiculous that comment is? Have you any idea how many great musicians there are in the jazz and the classical world who are assholes? And why are you denigrating all Rock musicians?

As I wrote that comment it became clear to me what the problem is in these discussions. We all have a right to our opinions; but, we don't have a right to present them as fact without being able to back them up. I have said this before, I admire your passion and your inquisitiveness (as of late); but, with due respect, when it comes to some of these topics, you don't know what you are talking about. If you did, you wouldn't have to ask some of the questions that you do.

BTW, what happened with that on-line music course you were considering? You should do it.

Cheers.