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Questioning the need for a DAC

Friends,
I have a modified Oppo 103 that was a huge step up from my $2K Consonance tube CD player.  I also have a Jolida FX Tube DAC, maybe the II version, which I have had for many years.  I ran the Oppo directly into my system (I have a Don Sachs tube preamp and various amps, tube and SS, and Spatial Audio Hologram M4 Turbo S speakers) and then through the Jolida.  I honestly didn't hear a difference.  Some months later,  I demo'd a Schiit Gungnir and did the same comparison.  I really couldn't discern an audible difference with the Schiit in or out of the system.  I will admit that I sent the Schiit back for a refund after only 30 hours or so of burn-in so maybe 100 hours of burn-in might have lead to a different outcome.  A boatload of audiophiles rave about the sonic improvement with the pricey DAC's in their systems, no question about it.  With my ears, not so much.  

A "cheap and cheerful" audiophile friend of mine, who doesn't listen to much digitally-reproduced music, posed an interesting question.   If one invests in a modern quality CD player (i.e., like the Oppo 103 or 105, which make the Stereophile list of "Class A" products or many others between $1K-$5K), why is there the expectation that one needs a separate DAC to improve the sound of the DAC?   It is not trivial question.  As a matter of fact, I called Oppo while I was auditioning the Schiit DAC, nonplussed, asking why I wasn't hearing some significant improvement with the addition of an external DAC of the caliber of the Gungnir.  In response, the Oppo rep suggested, quite casually, that maybe the internal DAC in the modestly-priced Oppo 103 was quite good.  Indeed, because that is what my 63-year old ears told me.

I'd be keen to hear feedback from others who ponder the same question.   As I age, I am aware of the desire of sellers of many audio products to strike a deal with me that frankly might benefit them more financially than I  benefit sonically.  Cheers, Mark 

  
whitestix
sbank's avatar
sbank
3,378 posts
 
@williewonka That's all very interesting and insightful. I also tried a dual-headed USB from computer to DAC and it did help on its own to decrease noise from the computer to a small degree. Glad to hear you are using an upgraded LPS on the computer.

I am not doubting the benefit you hear from the Vlink, but my conclusion is that "To get the very best out of the Gungnir (or Bifrost), you have to" feed it from a good single purpose source component. Then you don't need to bypass its USB port. I would assert that Vlink would provide little improvement between my microRendu and Gungnir  Bring it over sometime and we can test it out. Cheers,
Spencer
williewonka
3,072 posts
 
Spencer - where do you live ? I'll be right over :-)

Anywhere near Toronto, Canada?

Kidding aside - given the opportunity, I'm always willing to  get together with other Audio enthusiasts to "compare notes"

There are so many different things to try and time prevents us from trying all of them - that's why Audiogon is the perfect place to share information and approaches taken by its members

Good chatting with you


whitestix OP
697 posts
 
I did a A/B test with the CIA DAC/power supply vs. straight in from the Oppo (it was just twist of the selector knob on the preamp) and honestly I didn't find any noticeable difference in sound in a 100+ comparisons with lots of different music.  It is what it is.  

auxinput
2,920 posts
 
I'm not saying there is no difference between CIA DAC and Oppo, but there is a point where the quality of the interconnect (as well as power cord, resolution of the preamp/amp, etc.) becomes a limiting factor.  I have experienced comparing two DACS with, for example, an old Harmonic Tech interconnect.  I could not hear any difference between the two.  However, when using a self-constructed OCC copper solid-core braided interconnect, I could definitely hear that one DAC was highly superior.  In this case, the Harmonic Tech was limiting the resolution from the DAC source.
whitestix OP
697 posts
 
Good point, Aux, I might have to swap some IC's around to make an apples-to-apples comparison.  

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