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Conversion to DSD: Does It Eliminate Digital Glare?

Hi All

  This question is for people that have gear capable of converting vanilla redbook pcm CD files in to DSD.
To my knowledge this would include the Sony HAP ES and certain DACs, such as one that I am interested in, the Mytec Manhatten.
   I currently have two highly resolving CD Players, the Oppo 105 and the Denon "Anniversary Edition" SACD/CD player.  I listen to Classical Music about 99.9% of the time.  Rest of the system is Parasound PreAmp JC-1 and Power Amp A-21 with B&W 803- Diamond speakers; Bluesound Vault-2 and Node-2;
and a MacBook Air via Thunderbolt/Firewire adapter into a 10 year old Apogee firewire dac.
  My complaint is that some CDs, particularly in full Orchestral passages, tend to harden, particularly the strings.  My SACDs (I have over 100) don't do that, and I tend to attribute this to the DSD used in SACDs.
I am therefore interested if converting vanilla rebook CDs to DSD tends to eliminate this problem.    
mahler123
yping
351 posts
 
Does conversion to DSD eliminate glare?
Conversion of PCM to 128/256/512 DSD is desirable with delivering a more accurate analogue signal to your Pre Amp/Receiver/Amp and more closely emulates the analogue signal delivered from a TT or Reel to Reel setup, while endeavoring to ensure accurate translation of the original source recording to an analogue signal.

So the question you can ask is... can a TT or Reel to Reel (analogue) setup sound GLARY? ... of course, the answer is YES :)

You always need to pay attention to your setup, especially your speaker placement/setup and room setup :)

It would appear that translation/upsampling of PCM to 256/512 DSD is (can be) a good idea, especially if no Dac is used and the noise can be effectively dealt with (cleanly removed) :)
seventies
67 posts
 
mahler123 I am interested in further discussion insofar as I have a system very similar to
yours...B&W802D2's etc....and listen more or less exclusively to classical music.  I had a Denon 1713UD universal player and replaced it with the Oppo 105d, which improved on clarity at the expense of harshness.  I then added a Luxman DA-06, based like the Denon on BB 1795 chips, and believe I achieved clarity greater than that offered by the Oppo, with full-bodied resonance particularly complementary to piano music, and with overall sweetness and smoothness.  Annie Fischer's celebrated recordings of the Beethoven piano sonatas, which manifest some treble thinness ? related to her partial 'reworking' of her venerated Boesendorfer, sound wonderful with the Luxman.  String quartets are another matter...again I prefer the Luxman sound.  So now I wonder what improvement in clarity, without loss of a full-bodied sound, the new generation of DAC chips might offer.  Perhaps you have some thoughts regarding this.  Of course these choices overlap with digital formats.......
mahler123 OP
3,319 posts
 

After living with the Mytek Manhatten for a few months now, I do think that an improved Dac helps----with glare.  Note, seventies, that the mytek features the same chip as the Oppo 105, but the implementation is worlds apart--so it just in't the chip that makes the DAC.  As I have been playing some of the more offensive digital recordings--a Jean Pierre Rampal 'big box' on Erato is Glare Culprit #1--it isn't that they now sound soft, but there is a simultaneous gain in detail and loss of ugliness, especially in the treble.

   regarding Annie Fischer's Beethoven, I never thought they sounded deficient via the Oppo, but they are more impressive via the Mytek, particularly in the midrange.  And yes, that certainly is a resonant Bosendorfer that she plays.

   I have listened to these recordings both in flac from my Bluesound Vault and via the Oppo asa transport, both fed into the Mytek, and I don't think the digital format matters beyond lossy and lossless

randy-11
1,913 posts
 
"some CDs, particularly in full Orchestral passages, tend to harden, particularly the strings.  My SACDs don't do that, and I tend to attribute this to the DSD used in SACDs."

1. are you certain that the SACDs were mastered the same way as the redbook Cds?

2. have you compared redbook CDs and SACDs of the SAME concerts?
- and are you doing double-blind tests A/Bing the 2 discs with a slight time lag between them and switching back & forth?

The redbook spec. is known to have more than adequate sample rate for human hearing of sinusoidal waves...

OTOH, it is always possible that humans can hear the difference in bit rate on impulses (which make up a lot of music).  Most sensory channels are very good at near simultaneous comparisons, poor at remembering one thing vs. another and the impulse effect would fit the former.  But I have never seen any tests of that.

Because of the above, I never accorded much emphasis to the purported "need" for higher bit rates... not until I recently discovered that Meridian was involved.  That is a very serious company and their interest should not be taken lightly.

Of course, there is the real issue here of what could you do about it, if it was in fact a bit rate issue?

I think you should try to eliminate other possible reasons for what you are hearing and do test #2 above.
erik_squires
16,056 posts
 
@mahler123 nails it. I have the Brooklyn. There’s no glare in any format. They all sound good.

What I did noticed with my previous dac is that a Remedy Reclocker improved the top octave resolution. The RR re-clocks everything to 96/24. After auditioning both DAC’s I’ve come to the conclusion that some DAC’s play high rez much better than low rez.

For a long time we have assumed that High rez music sounds better because of the data in the files. Now I wonder if it wasn’t really that DAC’s have underperformed with Redbook. It’s not quite the same thing. The new generation of DAC’s has really closed the gap between Redbook and High rez.
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