Class "A" sound, as related to Stereophile.

Hi o,

Thanks, but there are some better rigs here on Audiogon, at least more expensive ones. I like to think that my system is an example of how to get superb sound using tried and true older equipment and optimizing the inputs and outputs vs spending huge on the latest equipment without addressing the latter.

I don’t know that you ever solve all of the problems with a pre-built room, but I was fortunate to have been able to start with a dedicated room that was very close to the Golden Ratio by taking out a wall between two 12’ X15’ bedrooms, giving me a 15' wide by 24' long room with a 9' ceiling. I won’t admit to having this in mind when we bought the house, heh, heh. I also found that the "Rule of Thirds" for determining speaker and listening position worked perfectly for my situation.

The acoustical treatments definitely took the mid-bass boom away and the side panels helped a lot with imaging. It is hard to believe how much excess bass waves affect the tonal balance, detail retrieval, soundstaging, and imaging of a good system for the worse.

I also built some floor to ceiling traps of the same design, only half as wide, for the corners behind my listening position but they sucked way to much life out of the sound. I used Shakti Hallographs in those corners instead and am very pleased with the improvement in image specificity.

There are lots of bass traps for sale, but I am not aware of any that actually seal to the corners. They are mucho expensive. You can try, as Jon Risch recommended for a poor man’s solution, to stuff plastic garbage bags with rolls of Owens Corning fiberglass insulation, but I tried that and it was not anywhere close to the traps I built. Ugly as sin too.

Synergistic Research sells a product (Black Box) that they claim tunes the room so that traditional bass traps are unnecessary, but I have no direct experience with it and it is costly ($2K per) and 2 or 3 are needed for a large room like mine.

Billy Bags sells a subwoofer type product that you hang in the upper corner of the room that is claimed to negate standing bass waves. Expensive also .

You gotta either pay to play or be willing to do some work.

Best to you o,
Dave

Viridian, those are the same exact tweeters I'm using. The magnetic field can snatch a screwdriver out of your hands. It was in the middle 80's when I began with the drivers and the crossovers, and only recently did I finally come up with a cabinet that I liked; that's probably why speaker manufacturers don't use them.

Dave, I use "rug cores" in the front corners and they work; 12 foot long cylinders made out of "hard paper" trap bass frequencies and stop everything from resonating. I know they can't possibly work as well as what you pay for, but they came with some new rugs, and they were free.

Poverty is the mother of invention.


Enjoy the music.

Hi o,

Maybe it’s just me, but this dialogue seems to be a repetitive series of ask, recommend, dispute/dismiss.

I am puzzled as the thread started with discussions about Stereophile Class A+ vs A vs B components. The listed price of the LOWEST priced component for each component category from the 2016 Recommended Components:

TT: Class A+: $30k A: $6k B: $2.3k
Tonearm: Class A+: N/A A: $1600 B: $600
Cartridge: Class A+: N/A A: $2k B: $450
Phono preamp: Class A+: $5k A: $1500 B: $750
Disc players: Class A+: $2k A: $400 B: $1200
Speakers: Class A+: N/A A: $16k B: $1700
Preamps (active): Class A+: N/A A: $4.3k B: $ 1100k
Amps: Class A+: N/A A: $3k B: $1600

So, if one put together a system with the LOWEST priced components in each category, the cost at list price would be:

Class A+/A (where no A+): $62k
Class A: $35k
Class B: $9700

This does not include cabling, stands, room treatments, vibration control, or any other costs aside from the core components themselves.

Regarding the premise in the OP, why would anyone waste a dealer’s precious time auditioning Class A+/A components if they have no provision, or plan for provision, to purchase such equipment? Is that useful? Is that even appropriate? The precious few B&M dealers that remain are trying to feed their families from the profits of actual sales of equipment and services.

Make no mistake, I am not wealthy. Thus, I spend time learning about other’s experiences with affordable gear/tweaks (instead of wasting my time and, even worse, a dealer’s time auditioning components that I will never be able to afford), seeking their advice, offering mine, and actually implementing the recommendations that fit my needs, thus far to outstanding benefit.

Much can be done with little money and the right attitude as you have found by upgrading electrical components in modestly priced gear. Yet, there are also vital and affordable sonic frontiers regarding room acoustics and vibration elimination to conquer that do not require modification to a designer’s carefully crafted component circuitry and that may yield much greater gains in sound quality.

Best to you o,
Dave

Dave, there is a very good reason for your confusion, and you stated it quite well.

Tech Talk is the name of this forum; that means we know a thing or two about how to get class "A" sound out of less than class "A" equipment.

I will give a limited example of how we get Class "A" sound from components that may have began as class "C" components, but that's taking it a long way; it's easier to turn Class "B" into class "A"; but when you think about how much cheaper Class "B" is than Class "A"; that's still taking it a long way.

First you must know what Class "A" sounds like; while I know because "high end salons" existed when I went on my "pilgrimage" to those places to discover and differentiate between the different classes. I don't know how it can be done now.

But that is the beginning, as an example of some of the things I have done; I made my own interconnects; Belden had some wire they sold to radio and TV stations they used for interconnects, that was a copper and silver composite; they sold it in 100 ft reels. (they no longer sell that to individuals, I wonder why not?)

New wire for tonearms is a good tweak. There are many useful tweaks for TT's that can be found on this forum that will bring them up to "B" if they started out "C", and that's a big leap in price. You will have to bite the bullet on cartridges.

Of course you have to be a technician to attempt my latest project. (those monoblocks sound so good now, that I'm in no hurry to upgrade the capacitors) which is not only to change the capacitors, but to modify the cabinet the unit came in.

There are limits to what I can do; TT tops out at Class "B"; Class "A" for amps and Pre's that began as Class "B". When you add up the money for interconnects, it comes to quite a bit; fortunately I have enough of that Belden wire to last a lifetime, but "Vampire Wire" sells some good wire, and everything you need to "roll your own". That concludes everything I can think of for the moment.

We're on the same page, and I concur with your list.



Enjoy the music.