Class "A" sound, as related to Stereophile.

Viridian, those are the same exact tweeters I'm using. The magnetic field can snatch a screwdriver out of your hands. It was in the middle 80's when I began with the drivers and the crossovers, and only recently did I finally come up with a cabinet that I liked; that's probably why speaker manufacturers don't use them.

Dave, I use "rug cores" in the front corners and they work; 12 foot long cylinders made out of "hard paper" trap bass frequencies and stop everything from resonating. I know they can't possibly work as well as what you pay for, but they came with some new rugs, and they were free.

Poverty is the mother of invention.


Enjoy the music.

Hi o,

Maybe it’s just me, but this dialogue seems to be a repetitive series of ask, recommend, dispute/dismiss.

I am puzzled as the thread started with discussions about Stereophile Class A+ vs A vs B components. The listed price of the LOWEST priced component for each component category from the 2016 Recommended Components:

TT: Class A+: $30k A: $6k B: $2.3k
Tonearm: Class A+: N/A A: $1600 B: $600
Cartridge: Class A+: N/A A: $2k B: $450
Phono preamp: Class A+: $5k A: $1500 B: $750
Disc players: Class A+: $2k A: $400 B: $1200
Speakers: Class A+: N/A A: $16k B: $1700
Preamps (active): Class A+: N/A A: $4.3k B: $ 1100k
Amps: Class A+: N/A A: $3k B: $1600

So, if one put together a system with the LOWEST priced components in each category, the cost at list price would be:

Class A+/A (where no A+): $62k
Class A: $35k
Class B: $9700

This does not include cabling, stands, room treatments, vibration control, or any other costs aside from the core components themselves.

Regarding the premise in the OP, why would anyone waste a dealer’s precious time auditioning Class A+/A components if they have no provision, or plan for provision, to purchase such equipment? Is that useful? Is that even appropriate? The precious few B&M dealers that remain are trying to feed their families from the profits of actual sales of equipment and services.

Make no mistake, I am not wealthy. Thus, I spend time learning about other’s experiences with affordable gear/tweaks (instead of wasting my time and, even worse, a dealer’s time auditioning components that I will never be able to afford), seeking their advice, offering mine, and actually implementing the recommendations that fit my needs, thus far to outstanding benefit.

Much can be done with little money and the right attitude as you have found by upgrading electrical components in modestly priced gear. Yet, there are also vital and affordable sonic frontiers regarding room acoustics and vibration elimination to conquer that do not require modification to a designer’s carefully crafted component circuitry and that may yield much greater gains in sound quality.

Best to you o,
Dave

Dave, there is a very good reason for your confusion, and you stated it quite well.

Tech Talk is the name of this forum; that means we know a thing or two about how to get class "A" sound out of less than class "A" equipment.

I will give a limited example of how we get Class "A" sound from components that may have began as class "C" components, but that's taking it a long way; it's easier to turn Class "B" into class "A"; but when you think about how much cheaper Class "B" is than Class "A"; that's still taking it a long way.

First you must know what Class "A" sounds like; while I know because "high end salons" existed when I went on my "pilgrimage" to those places to discover and differentiate between the different classes. I don't know how it can be done now.

But that is the beginning, as an example of some of the things I have done; I made my own interconnects; Belden had some wire they sold to radio and TV stations they used for interconnects, that was a copper and silver composite; they sold it in 100 ft reels. (they no longer sell that to individuals, I wonder why not?)

New wire for tonearms is a good tweak. There are many useful tweaks for TT's that can be found on this forum that will bring them up to "B" if they started out "C", and that's a big leap in price. You will have to bite the bullet on cartridges.

Of course you have to be a technician to attempt my latest project. (those monoblocks sound so good now, that I'm in no hurry to upgrade the capacitors) which is not only to change the capacitors, but to modify the cabinet the unit came in.

There are limits to what I can do; TT tops out at Class "B"; Class "A" for amps and Pre's that began as Class "B". When you add up the money for interconnects, it comes to quite a bit; fortunately I have enough of that Belden wire to last a lifetime, but "Vampire Wire" sells some good wire, and everything you need to "roll your own". That concludes everything I can think of for the moment.

We're on the same page, and I concur with your list.



Enjoy the music.

Fair enough, o.

I apologize to you as it seems that I have diverted your intention of discussing/sharing electrical modifications to components away to other aspects of the hobby. I hope that you feel, as I do, that all is not wasted as we both have shared helpful ideas with the other.

I find that a trip to a fine concert hall is a better benchmark than to an audio salon to establish an aural memory reference, or to a church with good acoustics and non-amplified vocals and acoustic instruments playing, perhaps also gaining some spiritual reference material in the process as well.

For the record, I am not adverse to electrical mods. I am, as I write, impatiently awaiting a used Modwright 5400ES SACD player (due to arrive tomorrow) with every imaginable upgrade. I just lack the knowledge and soldering skills to tackle DIY electrical mods beyond soldering connectors to cables.

Best to you o,
Dave

Dave, I had just gotten into the high end and I had to buy some of the components I auditioned, plus all the other stuff one considers a necessity after getting into the high end; I wasn't wasting any one's time. But what I did then is impossible now, because there aren't enough high end salons.

I have no idea how someone starting out can know, or hear in their heads the differences in the classifications of sound. Yes it matters because Class "A" sound yields so much more satisfaction; it's not a status thing if you're a very serious music lover.

Without a doubt, most of it is far too expensive for the average person to afford, but as you pointed out, class "B" is a lot cheaper and can come so close to "A" that it's hard to tell the difference.

Tech-talk is the forum for someone with a beer pocket book and champagne taste, because there are ways to accomplish this, and one does not have to be a technician, but you have to learn how to solder, and if you're a fumble fingers, know your limitations.

Presently I'm in that phase you're in, dealing with "room acoustics". Before I attempted to build my speaker, I went to the library and read everything I could find on crossovers.

When I went to the engineer, I impressed him with my knowledge and was able to communicate what I wanted. Believe me, those people don't like to waste time if you don't know what you want. I mentioned that to let anyone who is serious about getting the best audio possible without the champagne pocket book, know that it requires work.

The library is no longer necessary, I have "google". The first step is to find what "google" knows about room acoustics; combine that with your experiences and go from there. Room acoustics is very scientific, no smoke and mirrors, that's why those rug cores, which were very tall cylinders that allowed the bass frequencies to enter but not leave, worked.

I enjoy communicating with someone who is as precise as you Dave.


Enjoy the music.