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Why pay so much for super high end?

Most speakers costing $50,000+ use Seas, Scan Speak or Accuton.

In DIY forums most speakers designed use bargain drivers and usually are only 2.0 designs not bookshelf or center speakers to complete a surround system.

I’d love to have a Scan Speak 11 speaker system for atmos with 3 way bookshelves, center and floorstanders.

Why aren’t the designs out there and why are you guys pissing away all your money.

Personally I won’t get an upgrade from my speakers unless it’s of this caliber and neither can I afford nor want to donate money to these thieves.

A 3rd party 11 speaker atmos scan Speak system would be nice but I’m not spending $250,000.

Why on earth aren’t there designs out there for this and why do you all piss away your money?

I don’t get why hi fi isn’t all DIY even honest factory direct companies mark up 300%.

Unless you pull in $1+ million a year and don’t have any time I don’t get it.

Are you guys lazy?

Someone easily could design a great crossover and cabinets for everyone and the days of paying over $3,500 for a pair of loud speakers if you got some time or know a friend who could build cabinets would be over. I know of people who could design cabinets that rival $100,000 speakers and cost less than 1% than that.  Someone with some experience could easily design a diamond, beryllium and soft dome and various versions for various tastes.

I don’t get it. Speakers are so simple.  Crossovers cabinets and drivers.

You guys just throw your money away I don’t understand it why?


funaudiofun
mb1audio
151 posts
 
" Begin with a good two channel system, like ESL's. Double the Left and Right speakers, mounting them at an angle dictated by your room. Right angles are a good place to start. Right away one hears something like an MBL with clean, fast bass.

Now add two more ESL's in the back, for surround. Best is to blend the Right and Left signals, but that's not absolutely necessary. What is necessary is a volume control. Set the volume control to the highest level which cannot be discerned in the listening position. That provides the concert hall ambiance without the source confusion."

As it stands, I'm pretty happy with my current system. I've had several pairs of ESL's so I'm familiar with how they sound. The issue I have with surround, is that I don't think its necessary.

This is how I see it. If you play a recording of an instrument on a 2 channel system (piano, sax, whatever), your system puts the image between the speakers. Now, lets say you have someone play the same instrument live in your listening room. They would be placed in the same spot where your stereo put the image. We all know the room will have an impact on SQ. Whatever effect the room has on the live instrument, it should have on the reproduced instrument. If you now through surround into the mix, you're forcing a different type of interaction than what you had with the live instrument. Unless I'm missing something, it would appear that surround takes you further away from the recording, than closer to it.  
wolf_garcia
6,723 posts
 
As somebody who plays instruments and runs live sound for small venue shows, I beg to differ on some points bandied about here (are they being bandied? I'm not sure but whatEVER). Speakers project sound through drivers pointed someplace (remedies for this notwithstanding for this particular rant) while instruments project sound all over the place and vary infinitely in output, let alone direction. Stand in the middle of my listening room and play guitar, then play my speakers playing that guitar (I can and have recorded live "house concerts" in my listening room using expensive and arguably accurate mics). Utterly different, both good, and both musical. Since I can't get Vijay Iyer to play in my house, or fit an entire orchestra in here, my system does the job well enough for me to really enjoy this stuff anyway.
mb1audio
151 posts
 
" Speakers project sound through drivers pointed someplace (remedies for this notwithstanding for this particular rant) while instruments project sound all over the place and vary infinitely in output, let alone direction. "

I don't see that much of a difference. If you stand behind a pair of speakers you can still hear them just like you can stand behind someone playing an instrument. In either case, if you want the best sound, you need be in front. 

Also, I assume you're talking about traditional box speakers. Bipolar speakers, like my old Mirage M1's will most likely project more sound from behind than is realistic.

" Stand in the middle of my listening room and play guitar, then play my speakers playing that guitar (I can and have recorded live "house concerts" in my listening room using expensive and arguably accurate mics). Utterly different, both good, and both musical."

I understand what you're saying, but I think you missed the point I was trying to make. If you were to switch back and forth between someone playing a live instrument and a recording, would stereo be a better choice, or surround? We all know that no one is going to mistake a live instrument for reproduced. I just don't see where surround would be a better choice. 
erik_squires
16,312 posts
 
@mb1audio I kind of had this discussion in a thread with Kal Rubenstein of Stereophile.

To my ears the biggest benefit to multi-channel sound is the addition of the center channel. It fixes a problem of your head blocking certain frequencies. Have you ever noticed that a violin will sound bright on the sides, but duller near the center? This is exactly that problem. I don't really care about surround content though. :)  Try listening with headphones and you'll hear this problem goes away.

If you have an Oppo or similar try Neo6 music mode.

As I recall, a lot of the early classical "stereo" recordings were actually 3 channel, so there's some interesting reading to do on the attitudes and recording practices as well.
terry9
2,353 posts
 
Well mbl, I don't have a performance in my music room, ever. Even a string quartet with continuo would be a little tight.

With my system, I try to simulate a concert, with the listener (me) positioned in the middle of the dress circle. That means performers in front, and reflections from the sides and back. I don't think that two speakers do that as well as six. I explained how I do it. YMMD.
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