Being polite, I just walked away without disclosing to the dealer.
Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?
I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.
Here is how I found out.
After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.
It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.
I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!
SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
Here is how I found out.
After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.
It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.
I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!
SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
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- 1019 posts total
Expensive cable, like an expensive watches (which sometimes keep time almost as well as a cheap quartz) etc hopefully offers pride of ownership and decent resale value if it remains fashionable. I mostly use 2X7m various high quality pro sector balanced mic & line cables between balanced pre (AR Ref3) and active crossovers. I do own some fancier stuff (2 brands 2x4m) but its not as long and has to cross the middle of the floor where it gets trod on and the difference is negilgable despite the length differences. Those crappy phono plugs make more difference and should never be allowed within 50 miles of high quality audio, but sadly we're stuck with them for many things. Loudspeaker cable, particularly if it has certain types of pvc insulation, deteriorates over time due to various chemicals used in the pvc manufacturing process. A friend was testing cables for square wave transmission in hostile environments and oberved that charge begins to kindle its own track in the surface of the pvc. PTFE and silicone do not suffer this effect, he found. Generic cables are available in high purity with these jackets. For a luagh see http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/bitsofwire_e.html Cheers |
The dealer is obviously blowing smoke and trying to influence you to buy the expensive cables. It was an excellent test to indicate that the dealer could care less what it sounds like, as long as you buy the $$$ product from him! lol. As far as your audiophile friends, this is a prime example of "pre-conceived notions" getting in the way of true objective listening. An audiophile can easily enter into a listening session with the idea that Cable X will sound better than Cable Y, so the mind plays tricks on you and influences you to actually think that way. It is very difficult to "leave all pre-conceived notions" at the door and truly listen objectively. It is a learned skill and takes time to figure out how to truly "listen" instead of "seeing" a particular product name. I have determined myself that $$$ cable does not necessarily mean it will sound better. We actually determined that plain old 12awg stranded OFC copper speaker cable sounded better then a several hundred dollar Nordost Blue Heavan. The 12awg is actually a pretty excellent speaker cable. In other extensive power cord and interconnect testing, I do believe that cables make a difference, but I have not yet gotten into R&D on speaker cable. I still actually using a double-run of 12awg OFC stranded ($15 for 50 feet from monoprice!). Eventualy, I will get into this. Based on other cable R&D, I think that the Neotech NES-3002 from VHAudio would be a excellent step up (being that individually insulated 21awg solid-core OCC copper conductors). Based on interconnect R&D, I believe that the braided Kimber 8TC/12TC would be good alternatives for testing as well. Even though Kimber conductors are still stranded, there are only about 7 variable gauge strands in a single insulated conductor. This is close to solid core and much better than normal stranded cable. Ahh, future testing. |
It sounds like you simply reinforced some expectation and preference bias into a slanted test. The power of suggestion is not to be discounted. You don’t come across much different than the salesman. I agree that most cables are way overpriced, but what you did sounds like nothing more than an exercise in making your ends justify the means. The fact that you don’t hear a difference isn’t an absolute. Just you don’t hear a difference. As for the "expensive" gear you bought, are they revealing enough, or just expensive? There are way too many variables in your scenario to quantify. This place is filled with expensive, but not revealing, equipment for sale. I’ve heard this argument before. Many times. All the best, Nonoise |
- 1019 posts total