Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?

Yes...long past time to move on past this thread which I’ll also try to do after sending this...

dynaquest: Going back a few layers, Dr. Waldrep is a recognized authority on multi-channel recording and mastering technologies and I have extremely high respect for his work and I own nearly every DVD-A he ever produced sitting within sight of me writing this response. A key question is however, did you assess his inherent bias or at least system of beliefs on the topic before you included him as the only one authority running a test that you cite? Appeal to authority is, as others have pointed out already, a de facto self-invalidating & weakening tactic for any argument, PARTICULARLY when you include only one authority who may have a belief system that is skewed one way or the other. Not saying Dr. Waldrep has one view or the other but it is clear that you cite him because he happens to have chosen the outcome that fits your side of the story, and further, that you did not cite any results that don’t support your point of view regardless of source. There is a subtlety too in what he writes in that part of the A/B test they he allowed them to just "switch between DACs..."; it seems to me that this alone is the basis for declaring the test questionable / partially faulty, regardless of the outcome. If the intent is to run a blind-test on "expensive cord" versus "inexpensive/almost free or stock cord", how is a test also including switching the frame of reference test device considered valid?

The amazing thing to me about this entire thread is the fact that some of you seem absolutely intent on bashing, insulting and brow-beating anyone into submission who does not believe as you do. On the other hand, many of us who have supposedly been duped, drunk the kool-aid from the cable vendors, don’t know what we are hearing, have inferior systems of perception and judgement, etc...and all the other little flawed argument-based insults various people have thrown out there,....are perfectly fine and at peace with the fact that you don’t believe as we do, or in SOME cases with SOME cables, a difference can be heard in our systems but that you don't hear such things ever in yours and further refuse to be open to the concept.

Personally I say "More power to you...!" that you are happy with your system, cables and cords; you may very well be right and you may very well be a lot smarter and have alot more cash left for other things than I do :-) and you have not made the mistakes with cables that I have, since you did not spend alot on your cables in the first place.

I am however curious what level and price of stereo and/or home-theater & stereo components you are running, what car, truck and/or motorcycle/sports bike that you you own versus the basic options available (remember a car’s a car after all, don’t need one of those moderately expensive to expensive cars or cars with better options after all(!)), if you like watches or boats, etc...what brand and model you pick, etc...to see if you practice what you preach in all aspects in your life or if you simply have a "xxxx-on for " and "won’t take the armband off" when it comes to audio, power and video cord-related topics and would go to any length to justify your point of view and browbeat the rest of us until we believe as you do.

Have a great day everyone!!!

dynaquesr4 
@ dlcockrum: I may have missed your point but I doubt seriously I missed the point. That point is that before people spend hundreds or (even) thousands of dollars on pretty cables with shiney connects, that come in felt bags and wooden boxes, that they are aware of the insideous power of the subconscious that will lead their ears to justify the money they spent on accessories that are incapable of improving audio signals. That psyco-effect is real. To deny it is sophomoric.

No one is saying there is NO SUCH THING as expectation bias or placebo effect or any other psychological phenomenon. But it's folly to believe that all listening is based on these psychological phenomena. That's why there are tests to eliminate psychological issues from the test. That's why we have AB, AB tests, and why we have often prefer long periods of evaluation - to be able to understand the real differences in sound, assuming they exist, and eliminate psychological issues. If you really believe that psychological issues always cloud your judgement in making audio decisions I reckon you have probably psyched yourself out.

Some points:

1. The link to Dr Waldrep’s test was recently posted by another member (scroll up)….I had never heard of the guy before. I had no original intent to “cite” that test except to counter dlcockrum’s slam on the good doctor's objectivity.

2. I didn’t “cite any other results to support my point…” because that is not my job. Google the issue, there are numerous, unbiased test results available online. What is hard to find is a test that supports “exotic” accessories performed by an unbiased manufacturer, retailer or owner.

3. My issue is not so much with those that fall for this wowwow magic…it is with manufacturers and retailers that get away with this scam.

4. My system is, likely by Audiogon standards, “mid-fi”  - B&W/Emotiva/Oppo. Mostly Monoprice cables. Spending more money on more expensive components would be a poor value due to diminishing returns. And purchasing “exotic” accessories would be a total waste of disposable income I can contribute to support other hobbies and interests I have.

5. Expectation bias (placebo effect): It is absolutely amazing what the brain can imagine. Once an “improvement” (new equipment/accessories) is added to a music system, one listens – this is a physical and, of course, mental process. You cannot isolate the brain from the experience for a number of reasons, and the more that is spent, the greater the expectation for improvement. The placebo effect will always be there because the listener/big-spender knows that there has been a change. Since virtually no consumer does, or has the capability to perform, an instantaneous AB test (the only kind that are really valid) on the old/new equipment, his expectation will allow him the pleasure of experiencing superior performance – even when there is none. In almost every case, once very basic requirements are met, more expensive cables, ICs and speaker wire do nothing to improve sound quality. It is science. Wowwow, voodoo magic wire is a scam.

6. On a light note, here is what one reviewer noted:  “With the help of these cables, I can now experience music the way it's meant to be heard. I find that plugging them directly into my ears helps transmit the cleanest, most pure sound. Make sure you clean your ears out though (with liquefied dark matter, of course), because quality will suffer if your ear-holes aren't sparkly clean.”

To the original poster’s question, I say "yes". I have never owned speaker cable that costs $5000, but have heard them in demos and they certainly didn’t seem to detract from the overall experience.

Over 10 years ago I replaced a very long run of lamp cord with $5.00 a foot solid core copper wire in a generally poor system and I was hard pressed to immediately hear any difference. After a long break in period the sound of the wire changed, but not necessarily for the better, just better exposing fatal flaws in my amp and speakers, providing a clearer window on generally crappy sound. Needless to say, that system is long gone.

I very recently replaced decent $1 per foot and $2 per foot multistranded copper cables in two different systems with some solid core copper cables with more exotic metallurgy and construction that cost more than 10x the cables they replaced. One system is a solid home theater/two channel digital and analog set up in a purpose built media room with 21’ cable runs. The other is a computer based office system for near field listening that cost less than $1K. In both cases, the difference was shocking, especially in the office system in that I was not prepared for it to be capable of sounding that good. Tone, timing, lack of sibilants, and spatial information are all improved. In both cases, the cables are completely out of view, so the only satisfaction of owning them is what I hear coming out of my speakers. But what I hear coming out of the speakers in both systems is a problem now because I want to listen to music all the time, LOL.

Based on admittedly limited past personal experience I put the hierarchy of impact of cables as power cords first, then interconnects, and finally speaker cables. My recent experience challenges my previous assumptions about this. Perhaps because I had the upstream cabling sorted out, the speaker cables showed more effect than I had noticed in the past.

My recent experience with power, interconnects and speaker cables tells me metallurgy makes a big difference and that grain and surface structure are both important, perhaps as or more important than the metal purity. I will say silver wires generally sound completely different than the copper wires I have heard. In my current systems, I prefer Silver digital cables and copper analog cables, YMMV.

If this all sounds crazy or doesn’t match your experience, then that is great - you will save money and can use the cables you got in the box with your gear or at the hardware store and be perfectly happy. I am just reporting some of my own experiences here, not itching for a fight.

kn

Dynaquest, have you ever listened to your system with any other cables than bottom of the line Monoprice, with your  B&W/Emotiva/Oppo system?