2. analog
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My personal experience with Direct Drive versus Belt Drive

This is my personal , yet limited experience, with a DD versus Belt Drive. This A/B took place in the same system. with literally the same tonearm. I am choosing not to mention brands at this point. I feel by keeping the brand out of the discussion, anyone who contributes to the the thread (myself included), can be a bit more forthcoming. I am not big on audiophile jargon, so I will keep this short and sweet. I started with DD, in a system which I was very familiar with. The room of course, was different. The DD struck me as near perfect. I could hear the starting and stopping on a dime, and the near perfect timing that many have associated with the DD.  It didn't take long at all for me to conclude this was not my cup of tea. It satisfied my brain, but didn't move my heart. Maybe I was used to the imperfect sound of belt drives, and it was indeed that imperfection, that made for an emotional experience. Who knows? (-: Fast forward to the belt drive.... Again, same actual arm. It sounded more analog to me. Decay was much more easy to hear, along with subtle spatial cues. Was it the less than perfect timing, that was allowing me to now hear these things I could not with the DD?  I have no clue! What I was sure about was the emotion of the music had returned.
fjn04
hiho
451 posts
 
Lewm: "IMO, the rim drive is the worst of both worlds, not the best of both.  Mechanical vibrational energy from the motor is transmitted right into the platter with no belt to isolate one from the other.  At the same time, the typical rubbery contact point between the drive wheel and the platter is constantly trying to rotate the motor in the opposite direction (per Newton's 3rd Law of Motion), and flaws in the O-ring result in mechanical noise and speed issues."

I agree that it's the worst of both worlds. My main issue with it is that it takes away idler drive's advantage keeping the metal (motor pulley) to metal (platter) relationship with rubber (idler wheel) interface in between. In an idler drive the rubber wheel's size does not affect the speed (at least not much) because it's only an interface in preserving the relationship of two true round rigid metal circles of the pulley and platter. Idler wheel is compliant and will have pressed spots touching metal and yet the speed does not change. But a rim drive must have true round rubber wheel to have speed accuracy because that is also the pulley.  Just imagine a non-true round pulley in belt-drive and idler drive. Disaster. Rim drive's rubber too hard will not grip the platter and too soft will deform the round shape and affect speed. One might say rim drive has the advantage of transferring the effective torque (including motor noise) more directly to the platter, and it can be the reason people like the sound. It demands a very quiet motor too.  For me, I rather stick with idler drive between the two systems. 

Just for the record, I believe all three systems (belt, idler, direct drives) can sound good. It's the execution that matters. 


fjn04 OP
1,561 posts
 
Indeed- The consensus is belt, Idler, and DD, can all sound good. It would be great if we can touch upon some specific offerings. Again, range is 10-12K max for table and arm. I have no qualms with spending a little less.
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
^ Exactly all can sound good, it´s just a question of implementation.
lewm and hiho, with all due respect I just get the impression that you are living in a world of theories and your illusions.
My direct rim drive does the trick for me. And I will try tape/string drive some day too.
lewm
12,861 posts
 
Harold, Theory is all I've got.  I just look at how rim drives work, and I consider what might be good or bad about it.  Rim drive itself seems to have come about as a band-aid available to belt-drive makers who feel pressure to offer an alternative.  Teres led the way in doing that, I think. But in another way, you are quite correct; I would be out of line to say that I know how YOUR particular rim drive turntable sounds.  It may be great, and I may be completely off base.  I did not mean to slur your choice of turntable.  I can speak about belt-, idler-, and direct-drive with more of a sense of authority, because I've heard more than one example of each type in my system, but even there, anyone's particular experience must be limited.  I don't claim to know it all, but I may sound that way some times.

hiho
451 posts
 
harold-not-the-barrel: "hiho, with all due respect I just get the impression that you are living in a world of theories and your illusions. My direct rim drive does the trick for me."

As long as it does the trick for you, that's all that matters.

I never said it doesn't work. It's just more demanding on the execution. Looking at pictures of your turntable, it uses a solid pulley and the platter rim is a softer material. That's a good solution to the issue I mentioned. The designer knows his theory and addressed it. No illusions there. 

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