2. amps-preamps
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Used Preamp on a budget advice please.

I’m currently running a top of the line Yamaha AVR as my preamp in a system consisting of a Threshold S500/II, B&W 802 S2 and B&W 801 S2 speakers, which I swap from time to time. I’m also just using a Yamaha DVD player as a CD player, but am planning to buy an older, higher end CD player as well. I also use a PC with iTunes running to an Audioengine D1 DAC. I also have a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable and would need to a phono amp for the products listed below.

I’m going to add an older preamp (with remote) for 2 channel to try to extract more definition, depth, etc, and to try to warm up the sound (the plan is to add a passive, high quality RCA switch to choose between preamp and AVR). I have a limited budget of up $700 and have been doing lots of looking. It appears that for my budget and need for a remote control, older pre/pro’s may be the best approach. I’m curious if anyone has any advice, opinion, or ideas on my approach and the following preamp possibilities:

Classe SSP-300
Classe SSP-75
Classe SSP-30 MK II
Cary Cinema 6
Simaudio Moon Stargate
Parasound C2
Krell Showcase PR
Krell KAV-250P

Thanks!
dastro
dstroman
1 posts
 
I've decided to try a few options, new and old. I bought a Krell KAV-250P and a Parasound P5. 

I got a great deal on both and each has home theater pass through.  The Krell comes highly recommended as does the P5, but maybe to a slightly lesser degree. I'll post my findings after listening. 

wcheng2
40 posts
 
Check out the Morrison ELAD too...only 2 inputs but sounds great
timlub
2,040 posts
 
Of these, I've only heard the Krell, Its not as good as the newer Krells.  I have heard a few Old Classe,   The 6 & 60 are both great, the 6 is a bit darker than the 60. 
Also,  look at a Muse Model 3 Signature and an Audio Research LS9,  Might find an Adcom GFP750 at that price, then by a sheer stroke of luck maybe a  Belcanto Pre1... Pre 2 or 3 would be great, but I doubt that you'll find one at your price point... Good hunting, Tim
dastro OP
42 posts
 
Well, the Krell KAV-250P showed up yesterday.  I connected it using the identical cables as my Yamaha Aventage HTR.  I'm running the Yamaha to Krell using it's theater throughput input.  This is interesting because with 2 different CD players in the system, it allows me to do real-time A-B listening using 2 copies of the same CD.

I've been told this Krell model is considered entry level Krell quality but I have a new found respect for the Yamaha HTR's preamp section.  I've had three people and myself do comparisons and if there are differences, they are incredibly subtle, almost to the point of being negligible.

To many on this forum, this may sound unbelievable and possibly sacriligious, but I am confident in my and others' opinion.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the 2 units have a similar sound or are of similar quality but I have a feeling it is my speakers (B&W 802 S2) that are the issue. 

I think the speakers just do not have the resolution that is needed to articulate the differences.  This is based on listening to a pair of B&W 801 S2's on the Yamaha (with Threshold) system (this is the basis for a different thread I started a couple months ago.).  The 801's are much more revealing when it comes to equipment and source material  Possibly the best resolution test I've found is using the Yamaha's "Pure Direct" mode.  When this mode is engaged with the 801s, the difference is not subtle.  It is like a veil has been lifted and the sound is more articulate and the soundstage is greatly enhanced.  With the 802's, I notice zero difference when the direct mode is engaged.  I find this very interesting since the the 2 speakers share the same midrange and tweeter units.  The 801s mids are glaring and fatiguing to me- and they lack midbass punch and have a somewhat boomy bass at times, probably due to my room.  This is why they are not my main listeners.  It has been stated that the 801s, atleast to some people, at first discover a heightened presence and resolution in the mids and lower treble only to realize this is due to somewhat increased levels in those frequencies, sometimes resulting in fatigue.

When time allows I plan on connecting the 801s to the Krell to see how they work with one another.  If there is an improvement, this will then put me on the search to replace the 802s.  I find this a daunting task as I will want to buy used to get the most for my dollars but will be limited to what is close for auditioning purposes. 

Lastly, I also have a Parasound P5 arriving today as well.  When the bug bites, it sometimes bites hard....
auxinput
2,920 posts
 

Hi dastro. A couple thoughts. You did emphasize that you wanted a "warmer" type sound. The term "warm" does not always mean resolution. If you want more resolution, you might have to sacrifice some warmth because the higher resolution character may be towards the bright/forward side of things.

Also, what CD Players and interconnects are you using? I have been in situations where the interconnect is not able to show the true resolution of the source. I have compared two different DACs with a lower end interconnect. With that, there was hardly any difference between the two DACs. However, when putting a very excellent interconnect into play (i.e. solid-core OCC copper, Futurech XLR connectors), it became totally obvious that one DAC was highly superior over the other DAC.

Your CD players may not be able to provide a real high resolution signal. This may also be a limiting factor in things.

With everything else, I would not say the Krell KAV-250p is a super high resolution preamp. It is not forward/bright, but there are other preamps that are definitely superior. The Parasound P5 might give you higher resolution and also be just a little bit more forward than the Krell. I am interested in hearing your results with the P5.

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