2. misc-audio
  3. 129101-1644

Should high-end shops be "OBLIGATED" to advise about component matching for best sound?

Being involved in high end audio for at least 35 years, I always wondered why audio shops don't go out of their way to advise about system matching.  I am sure a few go the extra mile, especially if the customer is looking for an entire system and willing to spend $10,000 to 50,000 ( and that would be lower side of premier systems).

Some of us "may or may" not be in this category, or even the medium of this scale of  $20,000-$25,000  Many of us "philes" may be close to the $10,000-$12,000 mark in expenditure.

I get the impression that too often high end dealers would like to sell you far above what you want to spend. There is nothing wrong with good and reasonable salesmanship to extend a customer's budget.  Often audio stores recommend entire systems in an ala carte fashion.

In addition, what happened to  the "stepped system" displays (with some variation). That may sound  like a mid-fi audio store selling approach, but high end stores could do the same thing displaying systems from $2000, $4000, $6000, $8000, $10,000, $12,000 etc   Each step would  have  speaker cables and ICs best suited for each system.   In my opinion, this "MIGHT" REDUCE the trail and error merry-go-round trial of buying and selling.

Lastly, I realize that a large percentage of customer may be looking for one or two components( separates in this case counting  as ONE COMPONENT).   There is no set way to build a quality audio system, but dealers need to get more involved with customers in making buying choices.  If not, then many shops will disappear over the next decade......  

I know the brickbats will fly over this thread because I sound lie an old fogey ( Well, I am an old fogey! ) However, should make for a spirited discussion!!      Thanks, SJ     

 

sunnyjim
sunnyjim OP
927 posts
 

To aka--ca.  I could have used the word "mandated" instead of obligated, but saw that as too strong and confining word   However, to just summarily "brush off" this thread because you offer some convoluted legalese  explanation that pleases you, is not very friendly or collegial   Member  "Willie wonka", at least considered what I said and offered reasonable criticism that other members also made; and, some members actually agreed with me. If what I proposed or put on the table for consideration is not worthy of some thought by you, well bully for you and you should move on and out of the discussion

Unfortunately, over the last few years,cynicism /or animosity toward threads that go off the specific or technical, and ask a general industry questions,or raise issues about the changes in the high end audio scene. I think there are some dealers who just want to sell you anything because they got to pay to turn the lights on every day. 

I once walked into an high end shop in Honolulu, gererally inquired about a pair of the YG "Carmel" speakers when they first hit the market at $18,000.  The owner turned them on for me, and they sounded very very good, but not "$18,000 good" what ever that is, or supposed to be. However, he never ask me what my electronics were at the time( which were in $1500-$2000 range.)

Nevertheless, I had  the feeling that the dealer thought  that if I listened  long enough , I would tell him to wrap them up and deliver them.  It was like ( comically) believing that I would catch the "buying flu" just by my proximity  to the product and the time spent in the showroom. The dealer was a nice guy, but in my opinion was a poor salesmen  Having been a audio salesman for 15 years or so in 1980's, I always felt it was better to ask  what the customer wanted to spend and keep him in that ballpark. Sometimes, I was criticized by others for not trying to step up the customer to the next system level. Nevertheless, I sold a lot of  hi-fi. 

Lastly, I think it is worth it to occasionally stop a minute and look at the macrocosm of the high-end market and business .Our precious hobby, obsession, or neurosis is driven by technology and profit. This does not mean we have to be dragged along with what is "trending" or topical.  

 Thanks to all who have responded so far.   S.J.

bassdude
495 posts
 
As others have said... it may not be realistic to expect any audio dealer and their staff to be so experienced that they might be able to advise the customer in how well all components match, or how all compare to others.

In addition, they’ve selected the brands they carry for a reason, whatever that may be, and it is in their best interest to present the brands they offer and the respective components in the best combination they are able to present - to attain the best sound they can to please the customer.

I’ve found few dealers and their staff aware of how well their components sound compared to the many, many available - especially, the "boutique" components out there, at bargain pricing, which compare very favorably to the major brands (which most dealers carry), or which actually "leave them in the dust."

On several occasions, at well known dealers, I’ve auditioned major brands (e.g. Harbeth, Revel, Golden Ear, Monitor Audio, Magnepan, NAD, Mark Levinson, etc., etc.) which have glowing reviews, but which fall far short of the sound quality of others they don’t carry (which often cost far less, are lesser known, or may be "boutique" brands). Nor, do they present those major brands with the best matched components to present their products in their best form (this is often the case with Maggies, which can sound incredible with the right combination of electronics, but not as well with many major brands). I assume they do so, because they can’t offer the brands, which best match, and must restrict their demos to those brands they offer, or they’re just ignorant of the best combinations of components (e.g. impedence matching, etc.). It doesn’t matter, they’re left with trying to sell the customer those brands they have. It’s unreasonable to expect them to "educate" the customer in the best combinations of components, if they don’t carry those brands. If they did they might not be in business long.

And... I've found... that the brands with some of the best sound quality (from an "audiophile" perspective), do not have many dealers in the US, if any (e.g.  Nola, Legacy, Gamut, LaHave, Atma-sphere, etc.), or may only be sold direct to consumer (e.g. DC10Audio, Wavetouch Audio, Linkwitz Audio, Magnestand, DecWare, AudioKinesis, ClassDAudio, etc.). 

Moreover, not every customer’s taste in sound quality is the same - some like "big bass," or "mellow, smooth" sounds, while other’s prefer the most resolution, clarity and definition they can find (though some, might consider that type of sound harsh, strident or fatiguing).

And still other customers will only buy the "big name" brands, despite their premium prices, over "boutique" brands, at much, much lower prices - not because they offer the best sound quality, but because they are the most well known, and are easiest to sell in the after-market.

So... many find... that it is most likely unrealistic to expect any dealer to be able to offer them the best combination of components available, or to even be able to discuss them. They may be able to do so, only in the context of those they offer. This is especially true of Home Theater dealers, who often "don’t have a clue," regarding the best quality sound from an "audiophile" perspective - it’s not in their interest, since most Home Theater brands don’t offer that.

I’ve found that I’ve been able to "sleuth out," some of the best sound available, and at bargain prices... only... by lots and lots of research on forums like this... and... by personal demos of "boutique" brands. I’ve found that by seeking out those who are widely experienced in "big name" brands, as well as "boutique" brands (which most dealers have never heard of), that I’ve been able to find some of the best sound available at any price, and usually at bargain prices. Though, there is some risk in doing so. And... you’ll always run into those forums, which are dominated by those like the "crew" on AVSforums, which are totally ignorant of "boutique" brands, and think that you only find quality sound in the "big name," HT brands (which, of course, is not true).

So... if... you’re an obsessive, compulsive "audiophile," there may be no alternative, but to "do your homework."
sfall
346 posts
 
"  Who would enforce this " obligation "? "

For the most part, manufacturers do. Established brands won't let just anyone become a dealer. Requirements vary from brand to brand, but they do their best to make sure a dealer can support their products. For example, if you wanted to become a Wilson dealer, you will definitely have to be a dealer for brands like Krell, ARC, Rowland,... If not, they won't approve you.
jimf42's avatar
jimf42
62 posts
 
They should not be obligated unless damage could occur through improper matching.  This is between the buyer and seller.
crazyeddy's avatar
crazyeddy
381 posts
 
@williewonka  I too have dealt with Audio Eden in Aurora, and have had only positive outcomes. I have also just popped in from time to time just to hang around and chat about music in general with Mike. Sadly there are too few shops like this around anymore.
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