2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,645 posts
 
The difference is the higher rated voltage cap has more material inside and they will be bigger for sure, More material is needed for handling the increased voltage. Speaker uf values are larger and meaning  600uf versions of 12uf caps would result in caps that are giant sized. They still can be at 100v 😊

They can and and often do sound different. A 300v and 600v version of the same cap can indeed sound slightly different. They use the same materials inside, but more material can have a slight impact on the sound. Over on the Humble  Capacitor review site they often pick up slight sonic differences in caps that have both lower and higher voltage ratings.  It depends on the cap. Higher uf values are usually not even offered in the higher 600v option however. 


schubert
7,386 posts
 
 volleyguy,I have a power amp that uses 4- 6550 power tubes I bought used .

They were running the new rusky Tung-Sol which are well reviewed .They are fair at best .
Cost me 800 $ to find a new set of Sylvania’s from the 50’s .
I was VERY lucky to find them and 800 bucks is cheap .
I used to haunt garage sales looking for Fishers with Telefunken .
erik_squires
16,898 posts
 
Little theory.

A capacitor is 2 conductive plates with an insulator. You can make one out of aluminum foil and wax paper, but it will be very very low Farads. I’ve done it. Tiny capacitance. Like, nano-Farads.

Commercial caps use insulators with a thickness measured in micrometers.

To increase the voltage rating of a cap you must make the insulator thicker, which then makes the need for more conductive material to compensate for the increased distance. This need for a thicker insulator is the driving factor on the rest of the design. This is true for ALL capacitors. Look at a 10uF electrolytic at different voltages. The 5V is tiny compared to the 60V variety.

Some uber-expensive caps like Mundorf Supreme’s are made as 2 caps in series in a single package. This cuts the effective uF by four, while doubling the voltage rating. You could do this yourself. With a pair of 20uF/100V caps:

---| |----| |---

You would have the equivalent of a 10uF/200V cap, even though you used 40uF worth of capacitors.

This is why these boutique caps are so much larger physically and in some ways justifies the price. The material cost just went up by 4!

Best,

E
schubert
7,386 posts
 
In our society cost is almost always what the market will bear .
erik_squires
16,898 posts
 
What the market will bear is not entirely disassociated from manufacturing costs.

Having said this, I have a pair of old shoes I'd happily sell for $5M dollars. If I can get it, great. :)

Best,

E
More to discover