2. amps-preamps
  3. 129071-76532

Class D = Trash?

So, I'm on my second class D amp. The first one, a Teac AI-301DA which claimed to use an ICE module, was unlistenable trash. I burned it in for a few weeks, it just couldn't perform, so I sent it back. Following that, I tried the new Emotiva A-300 (class A/B). It was significantly better, but lacking in too many ways for my tastes. So I changed gears, got an 845 SET from China -- and it was an immediate and massive improvement.

So, before I went further down the SET road, I wanted to try a better class D product using a modern class D module. I settled on the D-Sonic M3-800S with the Pascal module and custom input stage. I read from reviews that these things like to have big cables, so I picked up an eBay 8 gauge power cable (Maze Audio, el-cheapo Oyaide copy plugs, braided 4-wire cable) to go along with it.

Mid-range GONE.
Soundstage depth CRUSHED.
Euphonics DISAPPEARED.

Yes, resolution went up. Driver control went up, allowing me to play compressed rock/pop and orchestra with the speakers being able to render it all. But enjoyment in the sound is basically gone. Using my best power cable (LessLoss Original) improved performance, but didn't fundamentally change the amp's nature. I ran back to my headphones (Focal Utopias) to detox my ear canals.

So, how long does a class D need to burn-in? I want to give it a fair shake before writing the technology off forever. 
madavid0
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
sfseay
The 1000 hours is urban legend with no basis in science or audible difference to a golden ear.
msalha
  Also I am not sure what warm up period of 1000 hours mean.. It does not make any sense to me as I read these posts. The speakers need warm up period because they are mechanically moving parts that need to settle or get flexible.  If electronics change behavior that much with time.. that's scary to me from a Computer engineer perspective.


+1 sfseay and msalha, this is just a lot of Class-D paranoia rubbish, it’s said just to calm owners down that don’t like it from the get go, to eventually take it on the chin and live with it.

Cheers George
teo_audio
2,197 posts
 
yes, the 1000 hrs is a total red herring. I’m embarrassed to hear it being uttered.

If, in your familiar home environment....you don’t hear some fundamental qualities that you like, and enjoy (IE, emotionally!! not cerebrally!! vital point!!), then it is simply not working.

Music is about your balls, your butt, your body, your heart, your breath of life.

not your brain.

You can analyze all you want, but it must get your butt swinging.

Otherwise it should go in the trashcan.

Seriously.

It’s about the endorphins. For with them on the fly and in-situ, you actually experience positive neural growth and change. You become more intelligent and become a better listener, a more accomplished listener with greater aural discernment skills. Every listening session you get really mentally/physically ’high’ on, you literally become more capable, and more intelligent.

Mo’ wired for mo’ better. The brain is plastic and the body’s ’positive engagement function’ (endorphin highs, pleasure, enjoyment, etc) is literally what enables the plasticity ----- to become something new.

If the sound does not move you, then get rid of it. Yesterday.
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
teo audio,

I haven’t heard the affects of music described like that before but I liked it.

Well said!

Thank you,
Tim
guidocorona
4,298 posts
 

All, the aforementioned "red hering" suggestion that upwards of 1000 hours and sometimes more might be required to break in a class D amp, or for what it matters, a class A/B amp, SS or tubed linestage, or CDP comes from me.


Over the years I have broken in a number of pieces. They all eventually stabilized with break-in times largely hovering around the 1K hours mark with some exceptions. Many of them created eventually thir own special kind of magic. Some did not at all, no matter my persistance. Shown below are only the ones which in time delivered real music:


Aragon 4004 (A/B) approx 1K hours

Rowland M312 (D) approx 1K hours

Bel Canto REF1000 Mk.2 (D) Approx 1K hours

Bel Canto REF500 (D) approx 1K hours

Rowland M625 (A/B) approx 1K hours

Rowland M725 (D) approx 1K hours

Rowland M925 (D) More than 1500 hours

Merrill Veritas (D) approx 1100 hours

Merrill (Teranis (D) approx 600 hours

ARC LS2B (linestage hybrid) approx 1K hours

ARC REF3 (Linestage tube) approx 1K hours

Rowland Capri (linestage SS) (approx 1100 hours

Rowland Criterion (linestage SS) approx 1100 hours

Rowland Power Storage Unit approx 200 hours

Rowland Aeris DAC greater than 1500 hours

Esoteric X-01 (CDp SS) approx 1K hours

Esoteric K-01 (SS CDp) approx 1200 hours

GamuT CD-3 (CDp) approx 800 hours


As for warm up from power-on time for a well broken-in piece, I experienced it to vary from about one hour to about one day.


I claim no particular scientific knowledge. I purely rely empirically on my own old ears, which I have used one way or another for listening, studying, and occasionally performing music for some 60 odd years.


Doubtless, other equipment might behave differently. Besides, you might not experience the same long break-in curve as I did. If your quest for sonic nirvana is on a steeper curve, more power to you.... But if you find that after a couple hundred hours of installing a new piece nirvana has not yet reached you, you may want to wait a bit before succumbing once again to Upgraditis Furiosa.... Patience can be Golden!


G.










samac's avatar
samac
499 posts
 
@guidocorona 

Great post, thank you. I completely agree with your observations. I have yet to purchase a piece of gear, be it cables, DACs, amps or speakers that didn't take 500-1000 hrs to break-in completely.

Moving anything in my system also guarantees another three to seven days of settling-in. In light of that my gear tends to have more dust underneath it than most.:-)

Cheers,

Scott
More to discover