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VAC vs Conrad Johnson Amps?

I have had my Conrad Johnson Premier 12 140w/side tube monoblocks for many years and loved them.  Essentially they sound to me like Michael Fremer had described them in his long-ago review:  the CJ tube magic, with zest, power and control.  They've been able to drive pretty much every pair of speakers I've had, large or small.

At the same time I've always had some lust for the VAC amplifiers.  It started long ago when I heard VAC amps make Thiels sound like I'd never heard them before - liquid, astonishingly transparent and musical.  I managed to get much of this with my CJ amps paired with my Thiel 3.7s (and other speakers), but given that transcendent moment with VAC, and knowing how many of the highest end speaker manufacturers choose to use VAC and display their speakers with VAC amps, I'm left wondering "What If..."

I see people happy with amps like the phi 200 but I sometimes see the Phi 300.1 become available second hand (the only way I could afford that one).  It's 150W per side vs my CJ 140W, and I've read the VAC has good reputation for bass performance (I like good bass control) and driving many big speakers.  I wonder if any of the possible quality of the VAC would be off-set by the purportedly better separation you get with monoblocks - e.g. my CJs.

As I mentioned, I'm currently using Thiel 3.7s, with some 2.7s arriving soon, but I also own MBL 121s and like to keep my options open.  I'm also interested in the Joseph Audio Perspective speakers so would want an amp that has good grip on ported speakers as well.  I wonder what I may gain, and/or what I might lose, going for a VAC phi 200 or especially the 300.1, vs my CJ Premier 12s.

Anyone who has helpful experience to contribute, please do so!  Thanks!


prof
pdreher's avatar
pdreher
1,208 posts
 
I've owned one CJ amp (Premier 140), but it sounded like solid state, so I've kept my distance from CJ.

I currently own VAC Renaissance 30/70 MkIII Sigs, which replaced a Phi 200 (missed the finesse of Renaissance amps), which replaced a 70/70 Signature (very heavy), which replaced a 30/30 MKIII (wanted more power).  Sounds crazy... I know.  The Renaissance amps are superior to the Phi 200 with regards to vocals, strings and acoustic.  The Phi 200 has the best bass of any amp (solid state included) I've owned and excels with classical and blues.   

I've enjoyed my time with both the Renaissance amps and the Phi 200... they just excel in different areas.  The Renaissance amps offer more nuance and finesse, allowing you to hear deeper into the music.  The Phi 200 has more drive and power with explosive dynamics.
prof OP
3,473 posts
 
pdreher,

Wow, that's the first time  I've ever heard someone refer to a CJ tube amp as sounding like solid state (especially an older CJ amp).

Thanks for the insight into the sonics of the VAC amps.

Some day...
pdreher's avatar
pdreher
1,208 posts
 
It's quite likely that the CJ Premier 140 was a departure from the typical CJ house sound, so take my experience with the Premier 140 as an outlier.    
lissnr
365 posts
 
CJ Premier 140 was most definitely NOT anything close to a Premier 12. As a former Premier 12 owner I can tell you [when equipped with SED Winged C 6550's ] it is one of the finest amplifiers ever made. Natural, realistic, and very capable of effortlessly bringing the best out of my 3.8 ohm Apogee Duetta Signatures in a moderate sized room. The Premier 140 was likely more extended in the bass and probably more technically adept in certain areas but imho never managed to express the fluid continuousness and pure magic of the Premier 12's. 
prof OP
3,473 posts
 
lissnr,

I certainly agree about the attributes of the CJ Premier 12s.
"Balance" is the key description, and the one that Michael Fremer used as well.  When I tried various contender amps (at the time) there always seemed to be a sort sculpting (deliberate or not) of the sound - full but rolled off, extended but thinner, emphasis here, detraction there.  But with the CJs everything just seemed in perfect balance - they are almost like coherence-machines in terms of helping achieve that in any speakers I've used.  They somehow do the tube magic thing, while also disappearing because nothing wrong or obvious sticks out either. No fat bottom bass, rolled off highs or whatever.

I just figured that VAC may provide a step up from the CJs, perhaps in terms of further transparency or other goodies.
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