Directionality of wire

fsonicsmith OP
Someone said, "Ok, back to your corners guys... Let’s say wire has a direction created from the formation of the wire, and in theory will pass the signal better one direction vs. the other. But wait... music signal is all AC, so whichever way you place the wire it’s still going to be incorrect 1/2 the time, and correct the other half. It’s kind of like a tug-o-war where each side pulls the center ribbon back and forth 20-20,000 times per second. It’s a lot of work, but unless one side is declared the winner, it makes no difference which way you hook up the wire."

Bingo-exactly what Chris Sommovigo is saying, I believe.Exactly why even with shield to ground schemes, Chris’ take made me re-think the entire concept of directionality. If the fish scale on wire surfaces theory espoused by AQ and others were correct, we are left to pre-suppose that any competent producer of balanced cables checks the grain structure before assembling the connectors. I doubt that very much. I don’t doubt that there may be a subtle difference with RCA’s when you switch them. Very subtle. Sticking one harmonic dot on the ceiling kind of subtle. It could be due to any number of other things than extruding/grain structure such as dialectric anomalies (inconsistent contact or thickness or properties on a microscopic level), solder joints/connections, or other.

>>>>>>Whether you you believe the audio signal is alternating, or you believe the current is alternating or whether you believe the voltage is alternating, you can disregard the signal or current or voltage that’s traveling in the direction toward the source. The only portion that’s audible is the portion that’s traveling toward the speakers. That’s why you can hear wire directionality in AC circuits just like DC circuits. Which is what HiFi Tuning and I have been saying all along. The so called AC argument is the oldest pseudo skeptic argument against wire directionality but in fact doesn’t really mean anything. It’s a nothing burger! 🍔 Wake up and smell the coffee! Sorry, no Bingo.

By the way, your arguments regarding RCAs and harmonic dots are not persuasive or germane to the discussion. What you doubt is unimportant. No offense to you personally.

Oh atmasphere! Your right ! I am baiting! Why! The site sells six figure electronics! The forum is always a six figure source of advice! My belief! Make the forum a pay to participate genre!! As to costs, well enough to filter out the improve non sense! It's free and firing up Geo does provide me with amusement! If cost something to post, the Facebook audiogon would disappear! And a got a hundred Geo is going to bust my chops on this!

Geoff said:

"The only portion that’s audible is the portion that’s traveling toward the speakers. That’s why you can hear wire directionality in AC circuits just like DC circuits. Which is what HiFi Tuning and I have been saying all along. "

Geoff, I understand what you are saying! The speaker will only play the signal that is traveling towards it, never the signal that is moving away from it. So you can have proper direction of the cables all the time. That was a subtle, but completely understandable answer. Thank you for taking the time to write that.

For something to come back, it has to first, go forward. It's that first, forward moving signal that we hear. Speed is the friend of the audiophile. It's why we want faster amps, faster speakers, etc., because it gets us closer to the actual sound we're trying to reproduce. 

The faster the conductor, the better the sound. Sure, it's "only" a matter of a few percentage points between metals but in the end, one is faster.  Refining that metal in certain ways makes it better.  We can hear it. Why anyone wants to refute that is beyond me.

All the best,
Nonoise

Koestner, you raise very logical questions. And as usual, the responses and citations provided by Jim (Jea48) are correct. The key to reconciling his comments and yours is that while AC current of course alternates direction, the transfer of energy that is intimately associated with that current is in one direction, from the source of that energy to whatever load it is connected to.

(In saying this, though, I’m putting aside reflection effects that occur at high frequencies, as I described earlier in relation to a digital cable. To at least a small degree reflection effects do in fact cause energy to be transferred in both directions, and to at least a small degree cause energy to be absorbed by the source of that energy, as well as by the load. And I’m also putting aside the fact that to the extent a load is capacitive or inductive, as opposed to being purely resistive, it cannot consume energy, although it can store it).

Regarding the underlying question, IMO the Audioquest statement on directionality Jim cited earlier amounts to the least implausible explanation of intrinsic wire directionality I have seen. It should be understood, though, that by its nature the noise effects that are referred to in that explanation will be highly system dependent and even location dependent. And as with many effects involving noise, it will not have much if any predictability. Also, as with many other explanations that are proferred for controversial audio effects, a basic problem is that this explanation doesn’t lend itself to being analyzed in a quantitative manner, that would provide a perspective on whether it does or does not have a reasonable possibility of being audibly significant in some or many systems. With further complication being added by the fact that it is extremely easy in audio to attribute perceived effects to the wrong variable, as illustrated by the example of a digital cable that I discussed earlier, and as illustrated more extensively in the recent thread on fuse directionality.

When it is not possible or practical to obtain a quantitative perspective on explanations that may be offered for a claimed effect, there is virtually no limit to the explanations that can be conjured up and asserted, rightly or wrongly.

In saying all of this, btw, I take no position on the possibility that wire may be intrinsically directional in some systems, to at least a small degree. (And I’m referring here to wire as used in cables, as opposed to the vastly shorter lengths that are used in fuses, whose alleged intrinsic directionality would be swamped by whatever directionality the vastly longer associated wiring may have). But personally I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. And contrary to one of the comments Geoff made earlier, I certainly wouldn’t avoid the use of balanced cables on the basis of this possibility.

Regards,
-- Al