Sonic qualities of SET output tubes?


Can you readily identify a 300B, 2A3, 805, 211, etc., amp’s sound with your eyes closed most of the time?


If so, I’sure would like to hear from you.


Amplifier design and the technology utilized within its confines decides the ‘voice’ or influence it will yield as much or more so than merely the output tubes the designer has chosen to use.


I get that part emphatically. One must hear the amp regardless the type of output tube technology on hand.


And yes, some Pentodes and Tetrodes are used as Triodes but are not indeed triodes by their specific architecture. That’s OK, just focus on their use as Triodes herein, please.


There are however certain tube types, irrespective of vintage which have basic undeniable sonic colors or characteristics, apart from their electrical aspects which keep attracting people to amps which use this or that tube in its output stage.


Some love 211s. some adore 300Bs. Some love EL34s configured to run as Triodes. I have an affinity for the latter. So far anyway. This topic could change my mind.


Has your own experience informed you what this or that output tube’s natural flavor regularly announces itself to be so you can have a reasonable expectation of its general presentation?


What sonic attribute continually attracts you to a particular SET tube design, 300B or some others?


Or, conversely, what is it about the sound that would bring you to covet a 211 amp over a 2A3, for example.


Why as another example, would you pick a 2A3 amp over one using 805s or 300B, 211, etc. or vice versa?


Removing ‘vintages’ and electronic or electrical qualities from the argument, what sonic attributes for the more popular S.E.T. amp output tubes have you determined seem to persist in their particular DNA?


I’m asking for input from those SET tube devotees to lend their experiences and knowledge on the subject of what tube sounds like what irrespective of the SET application, generally speaking.


My goal is to try getting a better feel for which SET Tube amp design, if any, I’d want to pursue and possibly invest heavily into going forward as the soul of a new system.


Tremendous thanks to all!

blindjim

Johnk > “… much of SET differences comes down to the overall build quality and design of the amplifiers. “
….synergy exists between SET or other lower power amps and horns. I do think that many running horns are doing the horn equivalent of dipping a toe in the pool … the more horn loaded the better.”


Blindjim > thanks. I think we enjoy the same ideal here and it is why I’ve chosen to put my advance onto the SET oriented system will remain at least for now, an aside. Secondary.


In my world, I presently have no significant other to opine, or appease. What ever the choice is solely my own with regard to ‘ANY ‘project.


Partly from not being convinced that SET topology despite the particular approach, will formidly satisfy my designs on my musical preffs en masse. I could be quite wrong given I’ve not had the experiences here of others or yourself.


I’m simply hard pressed to accept the fact a Triode amp even with nice horns will kick out the jams quite like amps I have become accustomed to hearing with far more horsepower and point source speakers of standard varieties, within the confines of my home.


Sure I see horns at live music events. I do get their contributions to sound. If a very nice horn system cuold be had for $5K to $10K, and not the $23 to $4K prices I'm seeing out there, this would be lots easier.


This is not to say I’m a metal head freak or stone Rock & roller. Not at all. I do however enjoy a large slice of that facet. Indeed, with a propensity to large bands, rock jazz or blues, only 60 watt amps and above … well above… have been my lot and have IMO, been successful on their own levels.


Consequently, in order for me to have a system which encompasses all of the musical genres needs with less opportunity for mitigation or compromise, has to reamin my approach.


It was adeptly put, I’m only willing to put a toe or two into the water in facing down the triode contingent. I believe the best possible way to proceed would be as a few here have said pointedly, look into horns. I’ve been given much input on that singular note too. And I must agree. Horns would be the pathway to likely eliminate about half of the issues, and broaden the choices for SET amps to follow.


Sadly, I’m more than a little stayed, conservative, or main streamed to put $25K or the like into where it ought to be as with horns on pure speculation…. … at the moment.


Deeper soul searching tells me as well, were I not quite so grandiose the chances for two perhaps lesser established albeit quite adequate sounding arrays could be had, rather than one subjectively put, outstanding affair.


Ya eat the ‘blue’ pill or the ‘red’ pill. Ya can’t always eat ‘em both and be equally satisfied.


Still… something may soon arise that allows the herd to be culled, and a choice one cut out.

@blindjim 

I’m simply hard pressed to accept the fact a Triode amp even with nice horns will kick out the jams quite like amps I have become accustomed to hearing with far more horsepower and point source speakers of standard varieties, within the confines of my home.
I play our M-60s at home and they are triode amps. The speakers I use employ horns as well. As far as kicking out the jams: the speakers go down to 20 Hz and are 98 db and 16 ohms. I can literally shake the walls with bass that can be felt. That last bit of the bottom octave is one way you separate the men from the boys.

I played in orchestras from junior high all the way post-college. These days I play in a space rock band. That experience has made me a bit hard to please and I like to kick out the jams very much!

I think you will find if others respond, that horns and triodes are quite capable of bringing home the bacon! When I go to friend's houses and also when I go to shows, most systems come off to me as 'small and just little' because the images are tiny and the systems can't play bass, dynamic range or impact in the way that I have become accustomed.


horns and triodes are quite capable of bringing home the bacon!
Amen to that!  I've heard the M-60s driving the Classic Audio horns in a very large room at RMAF.  They R-O-C-K!!!
I heard the same set up at Axpona 2 years ago and it was as close to a live event as I have heard. I could feel the bass and while it was very, very loud, I could listen easily due to the lack of distortion. Classic Audio speakers and Atma-sphere M60s.
Why do you feel buying into SET horn systems takes so much $?                                                                                  Most anytime I look about high quality SET amps or integrated amps are available used in the 2-4k range. Altec JBL or other horn systems about 2k-up. I could see about 5k to try out a system and if you like it upgrade from that.   Most Altecs etc are easy to sell for what one paid if you buy smart. Sell the toe dipper move on up till you find what you like. And trust me a big horn systems are unbeatable in a home for SPL low distortions and massive dynamics no mater how much power you feed into a dynamic designs melting coils. The effortless sound makes many dynamic based systems sound dull lifeless forced and boring.