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Sonic qualities of SET output tubes?

Can you readily identify a 300B, 2A3, 805, 211, etc., amp’s sound with your eyes closed most of the time?


If so, I’sure would like to hear from you.


Amplifier design and the technology utilized within its confines decides the ‘voice’ or influence it will yield as much or more so than merely the output tubes the designer has chosen to use.


I get that part emphatically. One must hear the amp regardless the type of output tube technology on hand.


And yes, some Pentodes and Tetrodes are used as Triodes but are not indeed triodes by their specific architecture. That’s OK, just focus on their use as Triodes herein, please.


There are however certain tube types, irrespective of vintage which have basic undeniable sonic colors or characteristics, apart from their electrical aspects which keep attracting people to amps which use this or that tube in its output stage.


Some love 211s. some adore 300Bs. Some love EL34s configured to run as Triodes. I have an affinity for the latter. So far anyway. This topic could change my mind.


Has your own experience informed you what this or that output tube’s natural flavor regularly announces itself to be so you can have a reasonable expectation of its general presentation?


What sonic attribute continually attracts you to a particular SET tube design, 300B or some others?


Or, conversely, what is it about the sound that would bring you to covet a 211 amp over a 2A3, for example.


Why as another example, would you pick a 2A3 amp over one using 805s or 300B, 211, etc. or vice versa?


Removing ‘vintages’ and electronic or electrical qualities from the argument, what sonic attributes for the more popular S.E.T. amp output tubes have you determined seem to persist in their particular DNA?


I’m asking for input from those SET tube devotees to lend their experiences and knowledge on the subject of what tube sounds like what irrespective of the SET application, generally speaking.


My goal is to try getting a better feel for which SET Tube amp design, if any, I’d want to pursue and possibly invest heavily into going forward as the soul of a new system.


Tremendous thanks to all!

blindjim
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,935 posts
 
@blindjim 

I’m simply hard pressed to accept the fact a Triode amp even with nice horns will kick out the jams quite like amps I have become accustomed to hearing with far more horsepower and point source speakers of standard varieties, within the confines of my home.
I play our M-60s at home and they are triode amps. The speakers I use employ horns as well. As far as kicking out the jams: the speakers go down to 20 Hz and are 98 db and 16 ohms. I can literally shake the walls with bass that can be felt. That last bit of the bottom octave is one way you separate the men from the boys.

I played in orchestras from junior high all the way post-college. These days I play in a space rock band. That experience has made me a bit hard to please and I like to kick out the jams very much!

I think you will find if others respond, that horns and triodes are quite capable of bringing home the bacon! When I go to friend's houses and also when I go to shows, most systems come off to me as 'small and just little' because the images are tiny and the systems can't play bass, dynamic range or impact in the way that I have become accustomed.


swampwalker's avatar
swampwalker
5,138 posts
 
horns and triodes are quite capable of bringing home the bacon!
Amen to that!  I've heard the M-60s driving the Classic Audio horns in a very large room at RMAF.  They R-O-C-K!!!
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,519 posts
 
I heard the same set up at Axpona 2 years ago and it was as close to a live event as I have heard. I could feel the bass and while it was very, very loud, I could listen easily due to the lack of distortion. Classic Audio speakers and Atma-sphere M60s.
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,976 posts
 
Why do you feel buying into SET horn systems takes so much $?                                                                                  Most anytime I look about high quality SET amps or integrated amps are available used in the 2-4k range. Altec JBL or other horn systems about 2k-up. I could see about 5k to try out a system and if you like it upgrade from that.   Most Altecs etc are easy to sell for what one paid if you buy smart. Sell the toe dipper move on up till you find what you like. And trust me a big horn systems are unbeatable in a home for SPL low distortions and massive dynamics no mater how much power you feed into a dynamic designs melting coils. The effortless sound makes many dynamic based systems sound dull lifeless forced and boring.

larryi
4,095 posts
 
John K,

I agree.  There is nothing like a good horn system for effortless sound and incredible dynamics (even at low overall volume level).  Also, most of what is available is quite old and so prices and resale value are stable, or in some cases, resale value is rising.  Your advice on how to go about tasting horn systems is very good.  

The only caveat that I would add is that one should not judge the entire category of horn-based system on any one particular version.  I have heard MANY fans of horn systems say that stayed away for so long because their early exposure was to Klipschorns or something else that they did not like.

The bad news is that, once hooked, the really nice stuff gets as pricey as high end modern stuff.  I spent a lot of this past Saturday listening to a horn system that is in the process of being voiced and the bugs worked out.  It uses a Western Electric 713a driver, 32 horn, a Jensen RP 302 tweeter, and a Jensen M18 18" fieldcoil woofer.  The bass-to-midrange crossover is a vintage Western Electric crossover and the internal wiring is Audio Note Sogon and SPx.  It is an open-baffle system.  The clarity, dynamics and scale of this system is amazing.  The amps that I heard with this speaker were Western Electric 124s, but, I bet even a small SET amp would find this speaker to be easy to drive.  A lot of fun hearing the system even though I probably could not afford them nor do I have the space for this giant.
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