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Sonic qualities of SET output tubes?

Can you readily identify a 300B, 2A3, 805, 211, etc., amp’s sound with your eyes closed most of the time?


If so, I’sure would like to hear from you.


Amplifier design and the technology utilized within its confines decides the ‘voice’ or influence it will yield as much or more so than merely the output tubes the designer has chosen to use.


I get that part emphatically. One must hear the amp regardless the type of output tube technology on hand.


And yes, some Pentodes and Tetrodes are used as Triodes but are not indeed triodes by their specific architecture. That’s OK, just focus on their use as Triodes herein, please.


There are however certain tube types, irrespective of vintage which have basic undeniable sonic colors or characteristics, apart from their electrical aspects which keep attracting people to amps which use this or that tube in its output stage.


Some love 211s. some adore 300Bs. Some love EL34s configured to run as Triodes. I have an affinity for the latter. So far anyway. This topic could change my mind.


Has your own experience informed you what this or that output tube’s natural flavor regularly announces itself to be so you can have a reasonable expectation of its general presentation?


What sonic attribute continually attracts you to a particular SET tube design, 300B or some others?


Or, conversely, what is it about the sound that would bring you to covet a 211 amp over a 2A3, for example.


Why as another example, would you pick a 2A3 amp over one using 805s or 300B, 211, etc. or vice versa?


Removing ‘vintages’ and electronic or electrical qualities from the argument, what sonic attributes for the more popular S.E.T. amp output tubes have you determined seem to persist in their particular DNA?


I’m asking for input from those SET tube devotees to lend their experiences and knowledge on the subject of what tube sounds like what irrespective of the SET application, generally speaking.


My goal is to try getting a better feel for which SET Tube amp design, if any, I’d want to pursue and possibly invest heavily into going forward as the soul of a new system.


Tremendous thanks to all!

blindjim
larryi
4,098 posts
 
John K,

I agree.  There is nothing like a good horn system for effortless sound and incredible dynamics (even at low overall volume level).  Also, most of what is available is quite old and so prices and resale value are stable, or in some cases, resale value is rising.  Your advice on how to go about tasting horn systems is very good.  

The only caveat that I would add is that one should not judge the entire category of horn-based system on any one particular version.  I have heard MANY fans of horn systems say that stayed away for so long because their early exposure was to Klipschorns or something else that they did not like.

The bad news is that, once hooked, the really nice stuff gets as pricey as high end modern stuff.  I spent a lot of this past Saturday listening to a horn system that is in the process of being voiced and the bugs worked out.  It uses a Western Electric 713a driver, 32 horn, a Jensen RP 302 tweeter, and a Jensen M18 18" fieldcoil woofer.  The bass-to-midrange crossover is a vintage Western Electric crossover and the internal wiring is Audio Note Sogon and SPx.  It is an open-baffle system.  The clarity, dynamics and scale of this system is amazing.  The amps that I heard with this speaker were Western Electric 124s, but, I bet even a small SET amp would find this speaker to be easy to drive.  A lot of fun hearing the system even though I probably could not afford them nor do I have the space for this giant.
blindjim OP
3,092 posts
 

Atmosphere > I think you will find if others respond, that horns and triodes are quite capable of bringing home the bacon!

Swampwalker >   horns and triodes are quite capable of bringing home the bacon!

Grannyring > I heard the same set up at Axpona 2 years ago and it was as close to a live event as I have heard.

Blindjim > Atmosphere, Swampwalker, Grannyring, you guys are great. Really super. It is obvious I’m missing the one item necessary for me to fully understand your advice, experiences and information, as I’m basing my entire thinking on one incredible listening experience to a pair of 30wpc Thor monos on some VSA VR4 JR 89db spkrs playing Dianah Krall off of a Shanlin tube CDP.

Beyond that all on my part is sheer speculation as to what SET amps can and can not do., with horns or with high eff cone speakers..

How well do they play stuff like Brian Setzer, Gordon Goodwin, Basie, big band blues, multi piece bands in general?

This begs the point then, exactly what musical genre is not served well by SET amps and High Eff speakers, if any?

Please, pardon my ignorance, but not having heard the aforementioned playing any of those cuts, I simply don’t know but felt it was not something sET’s were cut out to do.


Johnk > Why do you feel buying into SET horn systems takes so much $?                                                                                
Most anytime I look about high quality SET amps or integrated amps are available used in the 2-4k range. Altec JBL or other horn systems about 2k-up.

Blindjim > Johnk thanks a lot. Its pretty simple I’ve not the exp to know what to look at or for, and as such felt the need to go with only exceptionally well regarded and popular items, and many of them I’ve read about are quite expensive on both sides of the coin. Amps and transducers.

Add in to that no EXP on the SET + Horns front, and the opportunity to make a significantly poor and possibly very costly choice or choices is high.

I hope that might help clear up one or two things that continually concern me.

kdude66
1,200 posts
 
blindjim,

From experience I would like to give you another horn speaker option and that is the Bob Crites Cornscala.These are available as a kit or fully built for about 2k.I helped a friend put a set together about 8 yrs ago and 2yrs ago I helped him again do some updating to the crossover components.
Now his complete system has better gear than what he first started with which was just a Integra receiver.

I always thought they sounded pretty darn good for the money and could be paired with a Set or PP amp.You do need to be at least 15ft away or more to get the most Coherent sound.

I liked them so much I almost got a pair for myself but at that time I went in another direction and went down the full range driver road.

Our new smaller house has a smaller listening area and I set 10ft away from my speakers and the Tekton DI's are a much better choice for me know.

Just my thoughts,

Kenny.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,942 posts
 
@blindjim 

How well do they play stuff like Brian Setzer, Gordon Goodwin, Basie, big band blues, multi piece bands in general?

This begs the point then, exactly what musical genre is not served well by SET amps and High Eff speakers, if any?
Amps and loudspeakers don't have taste in musical genres! I wouldn't worry about that. Amps and speakers treat all music as electrical signals. There literally is no amp and no speaker that is particularly better at a specific musical genre. Seriously.

larryi
4,098 posts
 

I have always felt that really good amps, regardless of type, sound great at low volume levels and you really don't have to crank up the volume to get the juices flowing.  A good SET amp will be satisfying at a much lower volume level compared to most solid state amps.  The same is true with good pushpull and OTL amps.  But, if you are someone who loves to play music at really high volume, a SET may not be your first choice.  So, they are often not thought of as being well-suited for loud rock music. 

From my own experience, I think SET amps work well with all kinds of music.  The only kind of music where I really wished my SET would deliver more power involved large choral pieces without any kind of instrumental accompaniment (e.g., Rachmaninov's "Vespers").  For some reason, this sort of music is a challenge even when the overall volume is not that high (voices become muddy and the swell in volume is compressed).

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