2. analog
  3. 131346-99360

koetsu

seeking advice as to where the sweet spot is in this line price/performance.

dancekerl
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@dover
SUTs are a disaster for amplification of LOMC’s. Transformers have non linearities, particularly with regard to phase accuracy and are prone to ringing, it is not possible for a SUT based phono system to accurately reproduce what is on the record correctly.
Ringing muddies the sound and phase anomalies result is harmonics destroyed and sound stage distortions - the musical timing is lost.
Even the much vaunted Jensen transformers have to resort to zobel networks to try and tidy these issues up.
If you only listen to noise then by all means use a SUT, but it cannot produce music unless you consider music to be a series of distorted notes with no timing.

Damn, so how we should listen to 0,05mV Ortofon MC2000 cartridge then?

Without SUTs the volume on my amp turned at 12’oclock for late evening listening sessions, but it’s with 0.17mV Fidelity-Research PMC-3.

I don’t even tried to use my Ortofon MC2000 yet, i have this additional ZYX CPP-1 pre-preamp (headamp), but it was designed for 0,22mV cartridge. For the Ortofon MC2000 i was thinking about dedicated SUT :(

dover
2,247 posts
 
@chakster
That is the million dollar question. I have an Ikeda Kiwame (0.15mv) & Dynavector Karat Nova 13D (0.12mv) and have tried many options over the years.
Tubes - noisy but preserve timing
Fets - grainy/opaque
Transformers - low noise but act as tone controls, timing & coherency skewed

Most successful for me have been a custom head amp using bipolar devices and another unit custom designed specifically for a Highphonic cartridge ( 0.12mv ) using Burr Brown chips which are not available even to manufacturers ( they were research development chips for internal BB use only ). Both these units left my old Klyne System 7, Gryphon phono and many others for dust - grain free, transparent, ultra low noise floor. For LOMC cartridges 0.3mv and up its pure tube for me ( at 47k ) unless I need the extra gain. To be fair I have not heard current state of the art from Pass, Trinity etc so can’t comment whats currently available at that level.
In general, in my view, many reviews of LOMC’s more reflect the phono stage than the actual cartridge as really exceptional phono stages are few and far between.



nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

Dover's opinions depend from the amount of the New Zealand's

''Holy water'' he used before writing his post. For those who think

that this country produces only sheep my advice is to try their

wine. The income from wine is such that they call their wine

''Holy water''.  

dover
2,247 posts
 
@nandric 
Not so, no holy water consumed prior, but yes we do produce some world class wines. You are no doubt aware that your fellow countrymen contributed greatly to our wine industry following the migrations for the gold rush in the 1800's and later mass migration from europe after the ravages of WW2.
If you line up multiple phono stages in the same system of each type you will quickly recognise what I have described.     

nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

Dear Dover, I can't compete with a former HIFI dealer reg.

the aboundance of equipment owned and experienced but

I own two ''decent phono-pres'' and an abundance of MC

cartridges. Those two are Basis Exclusive (''gold'' version) and

Klyne 7 PX3.5 both with 4 amplifing stages. Both user manuals

recommend the lowest amplification possible for the used cart.

The reason is that ''the higher amplification the higher distortions''.

So I am with chakster regarding the LO MC with, say, lower

than 0.3 mV output. I am not willing to sell my home in order to

buy all nedeed SUT's for my 40+ MC 's collection so my compromise

is Denon AU-S1 which covers 2-40 Ohms impedances. I am very

much impressed with Ikeda's old and new carts (FR-7 fz , Ikeda 9

(cantileverless version) and the new Ikeda 9 TT. All of them with

less than 0,2 mV. To me they sound better with the SUT.

If you post to me some ''Holy water'' from ''our beloved'' New Zealand

my hearing may improve in such a way that I can agree with

you and earn at least 1000 euro for my SUT to eventual pay

for a decent amount of your ''Holy water''.

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