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Clearaudio Innovation Wood or shoot for the stars Techdas AF 3

      I currently have a VPI Prime turntable with a Benz Micro LPS-MR cartridge and a Simuaudio 610 lp phono stage. I was about to upgrade to Clearaudio Innovation Wood with probably a Kuzma 4-point arm when my wife says that this better be my last turntable upgrade and she said I could spend more for as long as I never ( never probably means 5 years, I hope ) upgrade my turntable again. This got me looking at the new Techdas AF5 ( just launched at the recent Tokyo Audio Show). However my dealer prefers  of course the more expensive AF 3  with a Graham arm. Although, he can also do  Kuzma except I have to wait for an armboard as most Techdas armboards are already pre-drilled to fit Graham's. I have heard the Clearaudio extensively in a friends place with the Universal arm and Mysonic Lab Signature Gold and its sounds great but I have never heard the AF3's. Though I have heard the AF1 in another friends system which costs  probably 20 times mine and it sounded beyond this world ( at least for me). Hoping that the trickle down technology on the AF3 will get me 80%-90% of the sound of the AF1. 

    Now, the question is which table to get? Assuming home audition is not possible ( but of course I will try ). The cost of the AF3 will leave me broke ( to do anymore upgrades to my system) but hopefully happy and satisfied.  The technology on this thing alone makes me want to buy it. The awesome reviews help too. The Clearaudio also has good reviews. I've heard it, it also sounds wonderful and quite a few people here own them and  it leaves me wiggle room too to upgrade some other stuff ( ARC REf phono 3 perhaps or  an additional cartridge for different flavor ) . Though I noticed that owner's keep them for a few years ( from my back reading of threads ) but still upgrade to much higher priced turntables ( hence my hesitation ) as this is  sort of the "last table for life" kind of situation. 

     This a once in a lifetime deal ( because of the wife's blessing and the amount involved ). I don't think she'll give me another chance like this one .  Hoping your thoughts/inputs can point me to the right direction. Thanx.
      
PS. Please do not suggest other brands, due to availability and dealer relationships these are already my finalists, so let's limit the discussion to the 2 above mentioned turntables.
attymbb
inna
7,324 posts
 
To return to purely audiophile land. On one hand, it might be right to have a turntable as the strongest link possible. On the other hand, it tempts you to upgrade everything else to match it.
As for other brands, the man said those two only, we should respect that and not suggest anything.
attymbb OP
25 posts
 
lostbears,
  
            Yup, will update on the demo of the Ref Phono 3. I'll take a more strategic approach to this upgrade as you guys have suggested. I even got a schedule for another demo this time for a Kronos Sparta. Though I previously scratched this off my list, I'm willing to give it a good listen for whatever is worth. 

inna,

          Come to think of it , you may be right about the my friends Techdas Af1. I will also never be able to afford it. My system sounds good but not great or at least something  is amiss in my opinion. At the time I heard the AF1 we had the same speakers but totally different front end. His system totally blew me away and he kept telling me before I bought mine that this is the  potential of your speakers and I guess it's still in the back of my mind.

           You are also correct that the wife wants to protect me from myself and the family finances as well. My wife knows me too well. She hates the fact of consistent outlay of money. Buying and then selling at a loss to upgrade, this drives her crazy. It truly is wasted $$$. She'd rather that I go totally all in and be done with it. Her famous saying is "buy cheap, buy twice" for which I believe there is some truth to.
   
lewm,

         you are correct, I do have my wife's blessing, and yes I'm struggling to decide between those 2 very and very expensive tables.
Probably more from a moral rather than financial standpoint. The financial aspect only affects my ability to upgrade other stuff which is sadly  the fun part of this hobby.  I think the others are more concerned at the approach I'm taking into spending this amount of money when it may not be necessary or appropriated in the correct manner.

        you feel that my af3 kuzma/graham will will exceed the capabilities of my downstream components. Which downstream component/s were you referring to? Cartridge included I presume? I'm not upgrading to an AF1, or Graham Phantom Elite. Is the AF3 that big an upgrade?  

inna
7,324 posts
 
Yes, cartridge and phono stage for certain. As for other components and cables/cords - I don't know.
I think, Ralph of Atma-Sphere was right when he once said that phono stage must be tube. Some will argue, of course, as always.
Which one? Well, at this level you try to match precisely both with the cartridge and the rest of the chain.
nkonor
635 posts
 
attymbb, 

A measured approach.

Good for You, Wife, Finances and System.
 
One thing at a time. Do let us know how the Ref Phono 3 audition goes. I am big on one manufacturer synergy.

My list of contenders: sources.......

- AF3
- TW Acoustic Black Knight
- Kronos 
- AMG 
- Kuzma M
- Technics 1200 G / wait for 10R

Anyone, with the appropriate Arm.
 
Cartridge, still your choice.

You / plus system appears to be a real "Player" No one dealer can service us with in-home auditions on of all these. Its part of the reason why we have to go in "blind" on TTs. Especially at this level. Shows, travel to a dealer audition, maybe a friend, reviews, recommend by anyone? All these options are perilous. Big $ bets???

I can get a 2week in home with an AMG / My main dealer for 20 years. Who else will give me this? 
I might be able to get the Kuzma M / 4pt. The key word is "might"

For this kind of $$$$$; I am almost willing to 'plane ticket a dealer' to bring and set up a table for a month long audition and if I buy get plane refunded.

TTs are A Lot more effort. IMHO worth it.

At this level your vpi 16.5 is useful for rinsing. How about a DeMag? How about a Record flatner/ Relaxer? And again, you will need a U.S. machine.  

Cartridges ? Yikes !!!!!

Take your time. A few hundred records? Vinyl has been a 47yr endeavor for me. You'll get more satisfaction long term. Plus you can look forward to more new additions, more often.

Do Not let Anyone punch your buttons on this. Use your Ears.
Buyers Remorse and selling at a loss is an even more expensive option. 

Let us know how the audition goes.  

Best Wishes on your Journey 
wrm57
1,060 posts
 
If I were you, I'd wait for the new Technics before dropping that dime.

FWIW, I owned an Innovation Wood with Universal Arm for a couple of years, with Graham Phantom II in second position. While I liked it well enough, I never really loved it (even on a Minus-K), preferring the drive and grip of my other deck, a Nantais Reference Lenco II. So I sold the Clearaudio and never regretted the decision. I'm not trying to diss the deck, because it is very good; I just never found it all that engaging.

Later, I picked up a used Brinkmann Oasis at a good price, mainly because I wanted to check out direct drive. While not without its flaws, it is more to my taste (on the Minus-K) than the Innovation. It is better than the Lenco in its precision and timing, and not too far off in drive and grip. The point is: direct drive, done well, is pretty hard to beat. I'd bet the new Technics will be quite special and worth serious consideration. I'm planning to check it out.
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