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Clearaudio Innovation Wood or shoot for the stars Techdas AF 3

      I currently have a VPI Prime turntable with a Benz Micro LPS-MR cartridge and a Simuaudio 610 lp phono stage. I was about to upgrade to Clearaudio Innovation Wood with probably a Kuzma 4-point arm when my wife says that this better be my last turntable upgrade and she said I could spend more for as long as I never ( never probably means 5 years, I hope ) upgrade my turntable again. This got me looking at the new Techdas AF5 ( just launched at the recent Tokyo Audio Show). However my dealer prefers  of course the more expensive AF 3  with a Graham arm. Although, he can also do  Kuzma except I have to wait for an armboard as most Techdas armboards are already pre-drilled to fit Graham's. I have heard the Clearaudio extensively in a friends place with the Universal arm and Mysonic Lab Signature Gold and its sounds great but I have never heard the AF3's. Though I have heard the AF1 in another friends system which costs  probably 20 times mine and it sounded beyond this world ( at least for me). Hoping that the trickle down technology on the AF3 will get me 80%-90% of the sound of the AF1. 

    Now, the question is which table to get? Assuming home audition is not possible ( but of course I will try ). The cost of the AF3 will leave me broke ( to do anymore upgrades to my system) but hopefully happy and satisfied.  The technology on this thing alone makes me want to buy it. The awesome reviews help too. The Clearaudio also has good reviews. I've heard it, it also sounds wonderful and quite a few people here own them and  it leaves me wiggle room too to upgrade some other stuff ( ARC REf phono 3 perhaps or  an additional cartridge for different flavor ) . Though I noticed that owner's keep them for a few years ( from my back reading of threads ) but still upgrade to much higher priced turntables ( hence my hesitation ) as this is  sort of the "last table for life" kind of situation. 

     This a once in a lifetime deal ( because of the wife's blessing and the amount involved ). I don't think she'll give me another chance like this one .  Hoping your thoughts/inputs can point me to the right direction. Thanx.
      
PS. Please do not suggest other brands, due to availability and dealer relationships these are already my finalists, so let's limit the discussion to the 2 above mentioned turntables.
attymbb
nkonor
635 posts
 
attymbb, 

Happy that your still with us. Excellent; yes, stick with the plan. At this level, jumping headfirst into things just gets us into trouble.

Update: there is a post on Analog Planet about the prototype Technics 10R. It will be made to be able to be used with other tonearms. Another game changer for me. My desire is #1 AF3 / SAT combo or #2 Technics 10R / Tri-planar 12" combo. Cartridge of choice - TBD.

Best
Norb
lewm
13,106 posts
 
I always try to keep in mind that even on a six-figure turntable, and with all the attendant other expensive "stuff" to match it, in the end we are still playing vinyl discs that we may have spent 8 or 10 bucks on and that some previous owner probably played on his BSR changer. (Of course, it could also be a $500-Blue Note that someone once played on his BSR changer.)  There's just a limit on what can be squeezed out of the grooves, and beyond a certain point, there's no upside.

Attorney, I wasn't thinking of anything in particular in your downstream chain of components that would be inadequate to the task of reproducing the output of an AF3, but it would be something that would start to bug you.
folkfreak's avatar
folkfreak
1,349 posts
 
@lewm I think you may have it upside down. Leaving aside damaged LPs (including groove damage from mistracking that may only be evident on playing) my experience is that it is the LPs you’d given up on as “harsh”, “boring” or just plain bad that benefit the most from a tip top LP playing system. Often as your system gets more resolving the hifi show discs suddenly start sounding artificial and messed with and it’s old mono LPs, great classical, 50s jazz, or in my case 60s folk, that shows its true colors especially after a run throughout your ultrasonic cleaner

so if your new LP system doesn’t make you want to spend hours with discs you’d previously written off as unplayable I’d argue it’s not really that good
lewm
13,106 posts
 
Folkfreak, I totally agree with you; as your vinyl system gets better, more of your "bad" LPs start to sound good to even great.  We actually don't disagree on that. My point is that in terms of expense, you can go "all the way" (which means you can get to the point where further expenditure does not yield noticeable increases in fidelity or listening pleasure) without going to six figure turntables.  (Many of the hyper-expensive turntables are pure bling, anyway, although I would not tar them all with that same brush.)
mallen123
110 posts
 
A bit late, but i thought I'd chime in.

I actually bought WRM57s Innovation several years ago to upgrade my old master solution.   I have not had a DD to compare it too, but i thought it was pretty good from a speed control perspective.

Recently, I accidentally left it running while leaving town for a weekend.  When I came home, it appears the cat pulled off the belt, and the motor had quit working.
So I called the dealer, and found out there is a new Innovation flat belt and pulley upgrade for $350, which I ordered along with a new motor pod for $1500.

After install I noticed it's much higher torque and the sound is much more dynamic. PRaT is really good.   It really surprised me how much better it sounds now.

My dealer said the flat belt upgrade makes a big difference, but I think the new motor also made a difference.  Not saying it competes with DD, as I've not heard any really top level Lencos or other designs, but it is in another league now compared to before.

If  buying a used Innovation, definitely get the flat belt/ pulley upgrade for $350, and consider getting a new motor pod if it's over 5 yrs old. 
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