Audio Technica AT ML-180 Cartridge Advice
It appears you can use the ML 150 on the ML 180. http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/re-tip-or-transplant-audio-technica-ml180-occ-w-broke... |
@ateal the guy you are quoting know nothing about the difference between two models if he think that 180 is Beryllium (in fact it is Boron). However there is a comment about the difference between 180 and all others (which is correct). I think i already explained why 180 is a different cartridge, look at the data. I have a few 170 and 180 cartridges and i can swap the styli between them, they will fit, but they will not sound good/correct if the generators are swapped (they are different). 180 is a stand alone cartridge. So you can not upgrade the 170/150 cartridge with ANT180ML stylus and vice versa. You need a retipper who really understand the subject, not just gluing whatever stylus/cantilever of this at-ml180 cartridge. Also i would never trust people who deal with Andy at Needle Clinic, i saw his woks on the pictures and it’s very bad quality, awful. So the advice to deal with Needle Clinic is a very bad advice. You have mentioned Garrott service in Australia, you should know that the brothers are no longer available, but the company has a good reputation. They can provide Micro Tracer or Micro Scanner diamonds along with Fritz Gyger (FG) diamond - this is a very good option if they can offer a Boron Cantilever. |
Dear chakster, from our discussion about Technics 205 series and AT 180, 170, etc. series I can only conclude that you never disassemled any of those styli. If you deed you could see how those are constructed and then ''grasp'' what an retipper can and not can do. I retipped only one of my all MM carts. The reason is the way this is done. Symple gluing the ''tubed'' aluminum cantilever above the ''restant'' of the original cantilever. All AT ''styli'' have the same construction. But the cantilever is fastened and centered with the tension wire to the tube behind. All MC carts use tension wire to connect the moving parts with the damper and the rest of the generator . But by MM carts this tension wire can't be removed or repaired. So the so called ''retip'' is limited to gluing an new cantilever above the rest of the ''old cantilever''. Consider than the problem from retipper side. A boron ( rod) cantilever can't be glued on the restant of the old cantilever without the help of an aluminume tube as bridge between the parts. Besides whatever boron kinds can't be connected with the tension wire behind the original cantilever. So advising co-members about possible retip without any idea about what can be done and what not is very curious act based on assumptions or rather speculations. The involved efforts and costs are then for the member who asked advice. Because all AT styli have the same construction substituting the cantilevers is obvious possibility. To prevent this AT invented different coupling system between the stylus holder and the cart body. Those can't be switched as ''stylus holder''. But by removing the whole cantilever/ damping combo from one cart and transplanting to the other this ''coupling problem'' can be solved. BTW beryllium is better cantilever material than boron. Even better than ''gold plated boron '' (grin).
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@nandric I can say for sure what is better in terms of cantilevers (i like beryllium on some carts, i like boron on others, and even aluminum on some of them), but i can say for sure that AT-ML180 is better than AT-ML170 and all previous models i have tried. The AT-ML180 was released in 1993 and it was the last and ultimate cartridge in this series. The AT-ML170 was made in the 80s (nearly 10 years earlier than AL-ML180). Earlier version have been discontinued when AT-ML180 was made. I don’t really care what retipper can do with MM cartridge, but that’s the only way to get an old cart back to life (when the original stylus is not available). Remember SoundSmith and his Grace refurbishing (so many people use that option to replace the OG cantilever). And they can do that. It’s not the original sound, but it will work. Using another stylus from lower model can be an option, but in case with AT-ML180 is not the best solution. I think it’s better to buy the whole cartridge + stylus (aka the AT-ML15, 160 or more expensive AT-ML170) than tryin to buy just the stylus from inferior model to make sure it’s not equal to the performance level of the original stylus of the top model supposed to be used with this cart from the start (just a waste of money). The AT-ML150 is not a rare cartridge and the price is not high, so why not just buy the whole cartridge+stylus? The AT-ML180 deserve a much better stylus (the original, but it’s impossible to find separately from the cart). If someone can refurbish ATN180ML (Expert Stylus can do that, they told me) i don’t see the reason not to do so. p.s. I would not advice people to use for example the stylus from Technics EPC 100c mk1 on Technics EPC 100c MK4 even if they are interchangeable mechanically. It make no sence (imo). |
