Speakers are the first piece of the puzzle

Well, the argument missing is the room. The room and how speaker friendly it is determines a great deal about what speakers you are going to be able to choose among.

From basic things like what size, and where you will place them come out issues about dispersion, dynamic range and then tuning.

A good sounding room plays well with a lot of speakers. A poor sounding room will demand certain types of speakers to sound good.

Whether you start with speakers, or amps, or DAC, I would spend money on room acoustics LONG before I spent any money on fancy cables of any sort.

Best,

E

it came at a later point, when I really got into the hobby, seeking knowledge, having experience, and using common sense!!
get a bad speaker, and you're stuck whatever you do - sure can improve them with very expensive electronics, but the other way around is totally playable.

It is all about relative error. Distortion of even an affordable modern DAC is ultra low, and so is noise. Frequency response is amazingly flat, and better than the 0.2 dB limit of human hearing acuity.
Solid state amplifiers are usually almost as good, and do not deserve much attention either beyond three issues that plague some: excessive input sensitivity, load dependent frequency reponse, and insufficient power. But it is not hard to get these right for a modest budget.
Speakers are horribly bad by comparison. Distortion is often hundreds of times worse than for electronics, and frequency response similarly and audibly deviates from flat. A few dB plus or minus from 100-10000 Hz is already pretty good, but clearly audible. And that is in an anechoic chamber or in the open air. Put the speaker in a real room, and things get even worse. Such deviations are so large that they will completely mask any  imperfections in the electronics.
Therefore, the audiophile obsessions with electronics and cables is completely misguided, even if profitable for dealers. It misappopriates resources into areas where they make no contribution, and denies resources to where a real sonic contribution can be made: speakers in the room.

I remember reading an interview with a dealer where the dealer recommended spending most of the money on electronics for a new system and then upgrading speakers later.  I thought about it for a while and realized that this is the best for a dealer because it allows them to sell legitimate upgrades down the road and they'll make more money.  If they sell a perfectly adequate but not terribly expensive source or amplifier initially, the customer will inevitably be disappointed when the upgrade to a higher end unit later on makes little or no audible difference. 

sorry for being late getting back.

@addyson815
Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
= = = = = =
@itzhak1969
Agreed.
= = = = =
@ nonoise
Many many thanks.
= == =
@islandmandan
Congrats Dan. Tanks.
@helomech > Whether it’s prudent to buy a particular part of the chain before the others is endlessly debatable.

Exactly. All the best.

@hifiman5 > where the fun is for me. (With the obvious exception of opening the box of new gear for the first time). Hey...who out there doesn't love that new car smell?

Unquestionably.

@beernut > when one becomes dissatisfied with the sound of their system, what do they change out first? Cables, amp, source, footers (giggle)? I'll bet speakers.

You lose. Pay me. Lol

The often prohibitive cost of speakers and the excentricities of their signatures, sonically and esthetically confound and frustrate folks enough I’d guess other avenues are put to trial and error before dem big ol’ speakers are ordered in. a side ways step in speakerage makes little sense unless a particular look or different color is needed in the exact same model.

Unheard speakers are very mysterious. ‘spensive too.

= = = = = = = =
Willemj > Solid state amplifiers are usually almost as good, and do not deserve much attention ….. Therefore, the audiophile obsessions with electronics and cables is completely misguided

Blindjim > I just don’t get you man. Not at all. Reading thru a number of your posts wherein you can aim at electronics I get the impression from your words all we neeed are big box, no name and or entry level amps, Home Depot extension cords, a 400 CD mega changer, and the best speakers we can afford.

It was said here use your ears. Have you replaced your ears with measuring equipment?

I can dig if a thing measues well, and sounds nice, great! But the looks and sound are what speakers are all about. I look for a speaker which has significant potential as most often the gear I’m hearing it with ain’t what it will be married to. Thereafter its looks, and fit in size to where it will live.

Then its can I afford it/them. Yes. I’ve even bought into the update/upgrade path at dealerships on loudspeaker trade in or ups so I could eventually get the pair I wanted.

To each their own.
= == = == == = = =

@dc_bruce > Well, you have to start somewhere! First, you have to have a room. This seems obvious

Very nice. Often overlooked. Tanks.
= = = = =
pokey77 > I don’t think the speaker has to be the biggest part of the budget. I heard a system a few weeks back that the amp/pre was over twice the cost of the speakers and it sounded pretty amazing. It was Sabrina/Nagra Classic. Add an amazing source and you really have something. This is just a personal example, not meant to be an endorsement.

Very likely here, the face under the mask being alluded to here.

Speakers don’t have to be world class. Many folks I have spoken with that became serious about SQ ushered out their first sets and brought in a few more before settling on something definitely more upscale. It was only then a number of these people went off on speakerage costing substantial amounts. Not their initial purchases.
= == = = =
@mapman > Room acoustics affect how the speakers sound so getting that integration right should be priority 1.

Wisdom filled! Tanks tons.
Sure doesn’t seem that is job one for the vast majority though, does it?

Moving into this house when brand new and starkly appointed with nearly nothing in it but gear and speakers, my roommate said to me, “you have a perfect situation!” ‘there’s nothing in here to negatively affect your sound”.

Well, no, nothing but the near endless echoes, ringing and overly bright top end highlighting.
No, nothing at all.

@ahendler > I would tell you to find a speaker that you really like, buy it and then worry about the rest.

That seems prudent enough. The caveat I continue to ruminate over is what span of time will it take to acquire the level of devices one wishes and or needs to get the most from these ‘destination’ loudspeakers. Will they still be relevant?

Or, will they by then have no value apart from being tools of education in system building and a complete financial write off?

bigkidz

vital input. Tanks much.

@ audioman58 > audio cables are very much so overlooked as good enough.

That goes under the heading of EVERYTHING MATTERS. And they do. Tanks a lot.


@kennythekey > it was not until more recent times that the speaker first concept finally made some sense. However, I had to find "my sound" first.

Exactamoondo. Thanks Kenny.

@wolf_garcia > How many long time audio geeks replace their entire system all at once? I suppose after a house fire….

Correct. I’m just examining which piece first, and giving creedance to the notion it is or should be speakers first for what ever reason.
Its always been from the jump, amp of some sort, usually a receiver so I had a tuner at least, and a pr of speakers, usually floor standing towers. And always these ‘first items’ were of necessity tightly budgeted purchases. Like with a couple grand or so. A bit more at times.
Then…. Came all else. Incrementally.

twoleftears

for sure. Thanks much.
= ==
@kosst_amojan > No matter how you cut the cake you're trying to drive a pair of speakers. The sole reason for everything behind them to exist is to exploit their best attributes and potential.

Undoubtedly.
= = = =
@erik_squires > the argument missing is the room. The room and how speaker friendly it is determines a great deal about what speakers you are going to be able to choose among.

I don’t think this argument is missing, I believe its being avoided. Routinely. Thru numerous speaker swaps in fact.
Regards.



@ hddg
> get a bad speaker, and you're stuck whatever you do - sure can improve them with very expensive electronics, but the other way around is totally playable.

Very true. Tanks.


Very few people came at this from their own historical ‘very first’ don’t know nuttin much about it but I’m gonna get me some big ass speakers perspective.

Many if not all handed out what their experiences have provided them by way of education. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Those posters with low posting numbers saw it for what it is a bit more clearly. Or at least got out what I was thinking. Naturally all of the feedback provided immense insights into not just the chicken or egg conundrum, but the very integral and finer points of actually choosing speakers.
I did not input one word which would have altered this design, ‘destination’.

When I first arrived here all I saw was get the most expensive speakers you can afford. Then buy other things.

I took it to mean buy the speakers you’ll be buried with or possibly ‘in’, first. Ala, destination speakers.

For sure one must fit speakers to the room and your eyes & ears. They may however, not be the ones in the final analysis.

Anything and everything then associated with your speaker selection is in flux, as much as is the speakers you just bought. Although them thar speakers will hang around thru numerous system manipulations and rearrangements.

Then, the beleaguered and beloved transducers must get kicked to the curb and new loves indoctrinated..

And so it goes Kurt Vonegut Jr.