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Audio Technica AT ML-180 Cartridge Advice

Just acquired an Audio Technica AT ML-180 cartridge with broken cantilever and was looking for advice on where to get a new cantilever rebuild and what material to choose from. My preference is a new Boron cantilever but was not sure who, apart from Soundsmith, offers this service.

Also would like to know which is the best tonearm to use for this cartridge once it's fixed. It can either go on my Audiomods Series 5 (eff. mass approx. 11g) or the arm on my Yamaha GT 2000 which has an effective mass of approx. 20g.

Thanks in advance.
ateal
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@nandric

BTW beryllium is better cantilever material than boron.

Even better than ’’gold plated boron ’’

I can say for sure what is better in terms of cantilevers (i like beryllium on some carts, i like boron on others, and even aluminum on some of them), but i can say for sure that AT-ML180 is better than AT-ML170 and all previous models i have tried. The AT-ML180 was released in 1993 and it was the last and ultimate cartridge in this series. The AT-ML170 was made in the 80s (nearly 10 years earlier than AL-ML180). Earlier version have been discontinued when AT-ML180 was made.

I don’t really care what retipper can do with MM cartridge, but that’s the only way to get an old cart back to life (when the original stylus is not available). Remember SoundSmith and his Grace refurbishing (so many people use that option to replace the OG cantilever). And they can do that. It’s not the original sound, but it will work. Using another stylus from lower model can be an option, but in case with AT-ML180 is not the best solution. I think it’s better to buy the whole cartridge + stylus (aka the AT-ML15, 160 or more expensive AT-ML170) than tryin to buy just the stylus from inferior model to make sure it’s not equal to the performance level of the original stylus of the top model supposed to be used with this cart from the start (just a waste of money). The AT-ML150 is not a rare cartridge and the price is not high, so why not just buy the whole cartridge+stylus? The AT-ML180 deserve a much better stylus (the original, but it’s impossible to find separately from the cart). If someone can refurbish ATN180ML (Expert Stylus can do that, they told me) i don’t see the reason not to do so.

p.s. I would not advice people to use for example the stylus from Technics EPC 100c mk1 on Technics EPC 100c MK4 even if they are interchangeable mechanically. It make no sence (imo).
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

Dear chakster, ''I don't really care what retipper can do with MM

carts''. But how then  can you advice whomever about the retip

possibilities? You are ''swimming'' between possible and ideal

according to your own ''perception'' or rather ''preferences''. But

why should anyone care for your preferences? There are many

MM carts for which the original stylus is impossible to get. So

your ''ideal'' is irrelevenat. The owners of such carts will try to

find whatever substitution they can . Your advice not to use

the ''lesser than ideal'' stylus make then no sense. There are

obvious contradictions in your argumentation. Your own reference

is 145 euro for such ''substitution stylus''. But any retip with boron

cantilever + whatever stylus is above 400 euro. You are not in

the position like your brother to buy a new car instead of Allaerts

MC 2 (grin). I just checked my AT 160 and am stunned with the

quality of the cantilever/stylus quality. In no new cart at present

irrespective of price such quality can be seen. All those boron

rod cantilevers look the same. Your comparisson between

beryllium and boron is very curious. It looks like: ''John is

the tallest  guy in our class but Peter is even taller''.

Either beryllium is better material for cantievers than boron or not .

 If so then boron can't become ''better'' because chakster think so.


chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Well, i don't make such conclussion about cantilevers apart from the cartridge this cantilever designed for. As i said i have all types of cantilevers on my original cartridges (beryllium, sapphire, boron, titanium, aluminium etc) except maybe a diamond cantilever. Who cares about cantilever materials alone? It's much more important in which cartridge and how it was used by the original designer. As stated in my ad this AT-ML170 can be refurbished by SoundSmith with his Ruby cantilever with Nude Contact Line stylus just for $250 in the USA. So it is not necessary to pay 350 pounds for Boron with Paratrace from Expert Stylus. Of course it's up to the owner. Ateal already have his cartridge and there are many ways to refurbish it with different materials from the different retippers in the different countries. 

Buyin another fully working cartridge like your AT-ML160 is another option, but even taking this option the owner of the broken AT-ML180 can refurbish it to have another cartridge on hands, not just throw it away for nothing.  I also have another AT-ML180 OCC with broken cantilever and that's why this case is interesting for me. 

We're all know what we can try to find the original styli or inferior styli from the lower models, but this is not the case here! 
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
^ Quite rightly so. Ateal, your AT is a very special cartridge and deserves the best stylus there possibly exists. More precicely, it must have a miniatyre ML stylus tip ; )
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

''Well , I don't make such conclusion about cantilevers apart from

the cartridge this CANTILEVER designed for''. A cart designed for

a specific cantilever? Are you shure  about that chakster?

By way of introduction:

Skeptic nr.1 : ''One thing, my dear, is for sure: nothing is for sure''.

Skeptic nr.2: ''Are you sure about that?''

You own some of those Glanz carts. I own MF 31 l, 51 L and 71l.

They all have the same generator but different cantilevers. The

same apply for the Astatic (100, 200, etc.)

You can buy (in theory) Koetsu Coral stone with diamond and

boron cantilever. I own Sony XL 88 D (D= diamond  cantilever)

and XL 88 with boron cantilever. But the most abundant choice

for his customers was made by Klipsch. ''His'' (from Japan) MC

cart could be bought with aluminum, saphire, boron and diamond

cantilever. In the same cart ! The idea being that different customers

may prefer slightly different timbre.

If your theory was ,say, correct for all those different cantilevers

different carts should be made.

There is this metaphorical saying that ''the whole is more than its

parts''. Metaphorical because we would need some other

number theory accoding to which 2+2= 5 .

What is meant is that the whole is complex and parts simple(r).

The whole constructed from different parts is called ''composition''

this in contradistinction to a heap of stones which is called

aggregation. In this sense a cart is an composition by which one

can't sellect one part and call this part ''essence'' of the thing

composed. This is an old and autdated methodology ascribed

to Aristoteles. Sugano san, Ikeda san, Takeda san, Mori san

and ''our'' Van den Hul, Lukatschek ,etc. are a kind of artist

who composed works of art with their cartridges.


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