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I have joined in the ZYX Family

Funny how change comes about. I’ve been intending to get a tube preamp for years 10-12 years. Instead, I got a tube amp which sounds great. . Tube amp with SS preamp sounds GREAT. FWIW, the SS Preamp was a Stereophile Class A Conrad Johnson PFR. So, its not like I was shooting in the dark. The PFR is a really good preamp. And the Bob Latino ST-70 seems to be a great fit along with the Silverline Sonatas. So I set out to get my turntable up to its optimum. I have a Teres 340 which has an Origin Live Illustrious 3 with Benz Ebony L cartridge. I put the OL Illustrious on it as a temporary arm. I figured the Teres deserved much better. But Maybe I am wrong. It sounds great. However, being an audiophile, I can’t leave it alone. So I set out to get a new tonearm worthy of the Teres 340. But then someone reminds me that a cartridge will make more difference than a tonearm upgrade, especially since the tonearm is a pretty good one. . So I consider the idea and come across a ZYX 4D for a good price. Thank you Raulirigueus(sp) for the idea. In the process, I saved some $$$ too. I’ve wanted a ZYX for quite some time. NOW, I see what all the fuss is about. This cartridge is fabulous. Next up is to clean the electric. Oneac seems to be a good way to go. But, who knows. My plans often go sideways. But I’ve really made some big steps forward thanks to some good advice and the good Lord above who over rules my ignorance. FWIW I often pity those who miss the beauty of good music. I love it. Thanks for your help along the way.
artemus_5
thaluza's avatar
thaluza
288 posts
 
Chakster -

I’m just curious as to why you said loading does not make a difference with the 4D, and with low ouput MC cartridges with low internal impedance in general. I have not read that before, but that is just a reflection that I admit I do not know everything. Not trying to start a beef, I’m just trying to learn and get the best sound out of my 4D. Anyways, I am still not totally convinced.

I do find it interesting that Nakatsuka-San chose 125 ohms for his head amp, as I had tried different options for my Allnic phono stage, listened with my ears, and settled on 117 ohms. I was pretty close. I am curious as to why he choose such a specific value of 125 ohms, and not, for example, 400 ohms? Is it possible there is a difference and he thinks that a higher loading value such as 400 ohms would be detrimental to the sound? Or could he have picked 400 ohms because, like you say, it makes no difference?

The fact that some audiophiles say that loading does not make a difference is anecdotal. I’m not dogmatic and can be convinced to their point of view, but I would point out that there are many audiophiles, and they seem to be in the majority, who claim to hear a difference with different loading options with their low output MC cartridges (this is of course also anecdotal) . This includes me and many other people here on Audiogon and elsewhere.

Here’s one thing that is troubling me with respect to your opinion that loading does not make a difference with the 4D. A couple of reviewers have written that loading makes a difference when using ZYX Universe cartridges, which if I recall correctly have the same internal impedance and output as the 4D. Myles Astor wrote, " Cartridge loading seemed best between 100 and 180 ohms into Doshi phono stage." Arthur Salvatore uses a Universe and reviewed the phono stage that I am currently using. He wrote: “the CSPS is only meant to be used with low output MC cartridges …. when my initial MC loading was set too low, … the sound was ‘dead’ for a while. Once I raised the setting one and then, later, two clicks up, that ‘problem’ completely disappeared. The lesson here is obvious; always experiment yourself to find the optimum setting.”

Food for thought.


atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,168 posts
 
I’m just curious as to why you said loading does not make a difference with the 4D, and with low ouput MC cartridges with low internal impedance in general.
The reason why has nothing to do with the cartridge directly. It has to do with the stability of the preamp.

The inductance of the winding of the cartridge is in parallel with the capacitance of the tone arm cable. This forms a Radio Frequency tuned circuit (also known as a tank circuit). The tank circuit is set into oscillation by the energy produced by the cartridge. It resonates in this case at several MHz and thus produces RFI (Radio Frequency Interference). Some preamps don't like that and don't sound right as a result.

The loading resistor detunes the tank circuit enough that it will no longer resonate. Then the preamp sounds fine.

If however, the preamp is properly designed and is stable with RFI, then the loading resistor will be found to have no effect.

IOW, if you need the loading resistor to make your cartridge sound right, it points to a stability problem in the preamp.

You can find this topic discussed elsewhere on this site and others. Jonathan Carr of Lyra and Jim Hagerman have discussed it at length as well as myself. Jim has a good article online:
http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html

-which goes into the math of it.

We did not use any loading on our ZYX- our preamps are stable so there is no need.

One additional point- when loading the cartridge, you are making it do work. This stiffens up the cantilever, changing its tracking characteristic- it will be less compliant; that's not a good thing. You are better off with a stable phono preamp.
thaluza's avatar
thaluza
288 posts
 
Atmasphere -

Thank you! It's making more sense to me now.
artemus_5's avatar
artemus_5 OP
1,996 posts
 
@atmasphere

Thanks for the explanation. I have read about stability of the phono preamp but did not understand what I read. You made it clear. I ran my LOMC Benz without loading. I thought  it was due to cartridge design. But IIUC, it indicates a stable phono stage (JLTi).  Guess I'll try the 47K.

"One additional point- when loading the cartridge, you are making it do work. This stiffens up the cantilever, changing its tracking characteristic- it will be less compliant;..."

The info above clears up the misconception that loading is for the cartridge.  I have never heard this before but I know you are knowledgeable of this. I have previously read that Mr Luschadek  (Benz Micro) recommended trying to run the Benz cartridges at 47k. Thus I thought it was due to his cartridge design. But I see now that he was figuring that the customer may have a stable phono stage. I suspect the only way for a layman such as myself to know if it is stable is to try it. Is this correct?
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,168 posts
 
^^ Yes.
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