2. analog
  3. 131997-74046

Audio Technica AT ML-180 Cartridge Advice

Just acquired an Audio Technica AT ML-180 cartridge with broken cantilever and was looking for advice on where to get a new cantilever rebuild and what material to choose from. My preference is a new Boron cantilever but was not sure who, apart from Soundsmith, offers this service.

Also would like to know which is the best tonearm to use for this cartridge once it's fixed. It can either go on my Audiomods Series 5 (eff. mass approx. 11g) or the arm on my Yamaha GT 2000 which has an effective mass of approx. 20g.

Thanks in advance.
ateal
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,002 posts
 
Dear @ateal: Thank's. Stupid people always exist since the human been exists.

Northwest as VdH are cartridge builders with all the know how and skills to rebuild cartridges, obviously that can't put in exactly the same condition the 180 as an original one.

The Lyra designer here and in other threads already left very clear how cartridge manufacturers works and its advantages against re-tippers.

Now, the more important issue is that you are really happy with your 180/150. Just stay that way till you find out a better cartridge for your system and music/sound priorities.

Btw, if can be true that a tube cantilever can has lower wiegth than same material in rod way exist no true facts that can tell us that hollow cantilevers always are better than its rod ones. Both have its own kind of resonances and we have to think that that hollow/tube or rod characteristics per sé does not defines the overall cartridge quality level performance. Tha's why we have very good performers with hollow material cantilevers and very good performers with rod material cantilevers.

That's the same as when in other thread we analyzed the best material for cantilevers and with scientific facts was not the berylium ( as many people think. ) the best one for that specific work but diamond followed by boron.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
ronco
12 posts
 
Obviously, my comments originate from 'the nickel seats', so everyone can apply the grain-of-salt factor easily.

In years past, I studied psychoacoustics partly as a hobby, and partly to aid in supplying sound for live gigs.  I came to the realization that, despite factual evidence, oftentimes people preferred sound that was not quite the best that could be offered.  Their judgement of 'great sound' was mostly subjective and that was that. 

Without beating a dead horse, or denigrating anyone's hearing ability, I become amused at the microscopic hair-splitting that arises over tubes vs rods; both of which are an order of dimension smaller than I could ever hear the difference.  My personal preference is Beryllium with a Line Contact stylus, i.e. the ATN155lc.  I recently acquired an AT150mlx and an AT150sa within a few weeks' time.  "Now, I can have a shoot-off between the TOTL AT carts from 3 different eras", I told myself.  Current results:  The AT155lc is still my favorite, but the other 2 are simply different, not better or worse.  Add to that, due to my small listening room, my 3-way column speakers are only 8 feet from my ears, which essentially provide a near-field environment, like a sound studio.  Auditioning new components or vinyl is also dependent on what part of the day it's done in.  Personally, I also have to factor in whether or not I've eaten recently and the effect low blood sugar has on my ability to process information.

I love facts and information and charts just as much as the rest of you 'audioholics', but I need to remind myself frequently that my musical enjoyment is not a laboratory pursuit, rather a respite from a day in a life.

YRMV
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

ateal, ''I was only passing on this information from an agent of Vdh

it is not my assertion or opinion''.

''Also I am pretty certain that if Vdh can build 'he Colibri' THEY can

perform a rebuild of an ML 180 stylus.''

The first and the second statement are contradictory. Your believe

in what Van den Hul or ''they'' can do is not relevant for the ''details''

involved by this repair. Chackster and I have had similar dispute

about Technics 205 series ''suspension problem''. Both the AT and

205 use ''tension wire'' in their styli which is usual my MC kinds but

rare by MM kinds. My conviction based on my information and

experience (disassemling the whole construction) is that ''tension

wire'' in the MM carts can't be changed or fixed. By AT carts this

tension wire is connected with the back side of the cantilever while

by 205 kinds  the part with tension wire need to be removed in order

to change the ''ruber ring'' (aka suspension) because this ring is

fastened behind the round magnet on which front side the cantilever

and tension wire on its back side are fastened.

By MC kinds the tension wire need to be (first) removed because

the suspension is behind the coils and does not belong to ''moving

parts''. After the installation of the new suspension the same

wire need to be fastened, centered and tighten a new. One

can usual  see those 2 or 3 screws for this purpose on the generator

bodies.

chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@nandric but what if they are completery replacing old construction to the new construction (new cantilever, new suspension, everything new, but with top quality parts they got as the manufacturers) to fit in the original plastic holder? 

If no one can repare those carts why they are all willing to check them, just to capilalize on inspection fee to refuse the work then and to send the cartridge back to the owner? I don't think so. This is a very well known models and each retipper knows how it works. I have never ever contacted Van Den Hul, but the Expert Stylus are also manufacturer and then i described by problem with AT-ML180 they are willing to check it out. Maybe you're smarter than all of them, but if they are smart enough they should refuse any offers to rebuild those carts from the start. Or they are dishonest and willing to capitalize on that small inspection fee?   

What exactly Van Den Hul does with all those p100 mk4 carts is still a top secret, but he did the job and somehow got paid and the owners are happy. 




nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

dear chakster, ''the if-then'' assertions are not facts. Facts are

true statements or propositions. My suggestion was to remove

the whole cantilever/stylus from one AT and install in the other.

No need for philosophical disputes by my proposal which nearly

everyone can do by himself. I am surprised that you never try

at list to investigate the stylus construction by AT carts. There

are cheap samples while no academic education is needed to

perform this task. Your curiosity should be more worth than ,say,

$50 for an ''cheap'' AT sample. Those offered ''for parts'' can also

be used for this purpose. So the price is not an argument against.

So my argument is: see or look for yourself. After that you can

propose your own finding about ''fixing'' the suspension by

AT or 205 kinds. Even with tubed boron cantilevers which Vdh

as a capable business man had stored in his stock the question

how to connect this ''impressive'' cantilever to the tension wire

behind the cantilever is not clear, at least not to me.

By 205 one can see those small screws on the pipe behind which

function is the same as by MC carts. To center, tighten and

connect the tension wire with the cantilever. As you could see

at the end of the tube the tension wire is glued. There are no such

screws by AT kinds. So I have no idea how tension wire by AT

are fastened. As a big admirer of the new and old Grace carts

you should be even more motivated for this investigation because

those also use tension wire. J. Carr  explained elsewhere in this

thread their function and advantage.

More to discover