Synergy problem


Hi, Audiogoners

 

  Well, I’ve learned a lot from reading these discussions that you guys have on this forum, so thanks.

  Now I have some questions regarding my own system, because it’s not quite where I need it to be. I need to switch out some components, and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

  My set up:

 

TT: Rega Planar 2, RB300 arm

Cart: Rega Bias 2

CD: Rega Planet

Preamp: ARC SP-6c

Amp: ARC D-90

Speakers: Klipsch Forte I

(w/ Crites aftermarket crossover and tweeters)

ICs are audioquest entry level

Speaker cable is monster

Headphones: Senn HD600

HP amp: Schiit Asgard

 

  The room is a bit challenging:  open-plan loft, 16’ x 32’. The listening area is at one end, and is about 14 x 14. There are a lot of huge glass windows to contend with, and ceilings are 10’ high. Wood floors. Area rug in the listening area. The speakers-to-listener triangle is equilateral, 10’ per side. Speakers placed on short wall, and I can go up to 2’ from behind speakers to wall.

  My audio signature preferences are toward musicality, a bit smoother (hence the tubes), I don’t need the last word in hyper-detail. I don’t play at crushingly loud levels.

 

I listen to everything – Stockhausen, post-punk, psych, Monk, Brahms. Mostly vinyl, some CDs.

 

1.     These speakers are not cutting it. While the dynamics are good and they rock, the upper-mids are shouty and glaring. On some recordings the treble is a bit harsh. With complex passages in for example orchestral recordings, they seem to get confused. Not sure why – maybe they don’t suit the room? People seem to love these speakers but they’re not working in my system. (The above problems are lessened when I hear playback through my headphones, btw)

2.     The cartridge is not great. It also is not well matched with the preamp. The preamp phono stage wants a cart with an output of around 3 mV. My current cart is 6 mV.   Oops!

 

So, my questions are:

 

Speakers:  Looking to spend maybe $1500, and leaning towards pre-owned. They need to be non-fussy with room location. They can’t be huge (maggies are out) or look strange (Martin Logans, out) due to WAF. Would ProAc towers work well in my set up? Maybe 2.5s or 3.8s, or Studio 140, etc. Or something comparable?

 

Cartridge:  $500 or less. Maybe I get a high output MC – Sumiko Blue Point (2.5 mV), Ortofon MC3 (3.3mV). On paper those match well with the SP-6.

 

Unfortunately, there’s just no way for me to hear these things together, and of course synergy is crucial. This is especially true with assembling vintage gear – there’s no auditioning any of it. So I’d be grateful if anyone in this forum might share their experience and help me going forward. Thanks in advance!!


plink-plonk
Have you tried any EQ with the Klipsch. I had a pair of Chorus II with Crites tweet and crossover for a while. It was a really fun Speaker. With no EQ it sounded like you are describing. Shouty, piercing. I ran some pink noise and used the audio tools app on the iPhone to dial in the EQ with Amarra. Sounded much different after that. With some EQ I think the older Klipsch can do some things better than most. 
I think you should keep your listening room and get a new hobby. It sounds beautiful.
I agree that new Heresys are not  fatiguing or harsh, but they won't provide the bass of which you're accustomed. I like Klipsch heritage but they can be unforgiving of gear weaknesees or poor recordings. I highly doubt Zu is any different in that regard. 

I would try auditioning something at the other extreme, something non-horn loaded, with softer, intrinsically damped driver materials. ProAC might be a good choice, but you won't find any of their large models in your price range unless you want a 15+ year old pair.

Orchestra recordings can be tough for many speakers, expensive ones too. Even if buying used, $1500 will require a compromise in some way or another, whether it's dynamics, bass extension, tone, cohesion... There's many great speakers at that price, but I'd be looking for a pair that has sins of omission rather than sins of commission. Right now you have speakers with great dynamics and bass but harsh, congested highs. You might consider sacrificing some bass extension and volume for something more forgiving. I know many have their hearts set on floorstanders due to bass volume, but I've been much happier since I moved to stand-mounters. Price being equal, they usually have better quality drivers and the cabinets have less resonating surface area (which leads to congestion with floor standers). IMO, harsh and fatiguing highs are far worse than a lack of bass volume. 
Mofojo's experience is a bit of an outlier.  If you have to EQ the sound with an iphone, obviously some other things are at play.  
Thanks for the input. I think i'm going to try to hunt down a pair of used ProAc speakers. The consensus seems to be that they match up well with ARC tube gear.
Evidently stand-mount models (Response 2 for example) are not up to the task for a larger room like I have?
Do I definitely go for floor standers?
Thanks