Why are the vocals on some records hidden behind the music on my system?


Help! I am new to this forum, but have been into audio for over 45 years and have never had this problem before. I was lucky enough to come into some money and decided to use some of it to up grade my system for the first time in almost 30 yrs. The system consists of McIntosh MC-402, McIntosh C-100, McIntosh MCD-500, VPI HW19 MKIII, Soundsmith Aida, Furutech Ag-12 phono cable, Furutech silver head shell wires, Furutech interconnects and Furutech speaker cables (yes I like Furutech) and Raidho XT-3 speakers. Now on some albums the vocals are buried behind the music and you have a really hard time hearing the singer? Not all albums are voiced in this manner but enough that it is bothersome. I have a large dedicated man room (24 x 27) with minimum treatment. CDs sound just fine so I feel that it is with the phono preamp in the C-100? I have moved the speakers 100s of times and have them at 5' 8" apart and 8' 1" to the focal point and the soundstage is good and the vocals are better, but you still have to really listen hard to hear certain vocals on some albums. Most of my albums are 30 to 50 years old and have been cleaned with a sonic cleaner (best thing ever imho). Even some of my new heavy vinyl has this problem.
scooby2do
Do you know the phono gain via your MM inputs? It is (remotely) possible that the gain is marginal for a 2.2mV cartridge output, I suppose.  But it would help to have some more details regarding your phono stage; does it have separate MM and MC inputs, as Czarivey suggests?

Other than that, I think you may have no problem; in my experience some cartridges do tend to submerge the vocalist in favor of the instrumentalists, compared to others.  This can actually be a virtue of the cartridge, in the case where you are not listening to a single, stage-center vocal LP.  For example, I found that my Stanton 980LZS tended to paint that sort of picture.  But the Stanton excels at bringing forth internal musical threads within a group of instruments.  It's certainly not broken.  The test for this explanation, of course, is to try another cartridge.

Nothing that you wrote suggests to me that the two channels are necessarily out of phase with each other, but be sure of that, too.  Nothing at all suggests a problem with turntable speed stability; I don't know where that came from.

You say the CDs sound fine and the vocals are recessed only on certain albums. The (only) obvious explanations are either those albums are defective or that's how the vocals are recorded on those songs. My suggestion is to play those albums on another turntable to isolate the issue.

The cart. is new with only 100-150 hours on it and I used a Pro-ject cart. alignment tool and spent several hours aligning it and getting the azimuth set and used a digital stylus force gauge to set it at 1.3 grams. I just finished playing Fleetwood Mac's Heroes are Hard to Find and there it was , yet earlier this morning I played Billy Joels I am an Innocent Man and it almost sounded 3d with the finger snap 3 ft in front of his voice? I'm not 100% sure what the gain is on the McIntosh C-100 is but it is about 10 yrs old and the 1st owner just used the MC input.
scooby2do
The cart. is new with only 100-150 hours on it and I used a Pro-ject cart. alignment tool
I suspect the alignment is off, and suggest you use a gauge which aligns the actual stylus and cantilever using a mirror, such as the WallyTractor.

czarivey nailed it as far as I'm concerned.

Assuming everything is connected properly and the MM input is functional, gain is approximately 35 dB on the MM input which is considerably light for a 2.1 mV cartridge, which would probably be optimized with around 44-45 dB of gain.

On the other hand, 68 dB on the MC side is way too high, and more suited to very low output MC's, certainly below .25 mV and more likely to be effective with .1 to .2 mV cartridges.

Get a new cartridge, get a new phono stage, or modify the gain on the existing phono stage.

Most records would probably sound like they were being played through a wet blanket.