2. analog
  3. 133357-104726

Why are the vocals on some records hidden behind the music on my system?

Help! I am new to this forum, but have been into audio for over 45 years and have never had this problem before. I was lucky enough to come into some money and decided to use some of it to up grade my system for the first time in almost 30 yrs. The system consists of McIntosh MC-402, McIntosh C-100, McIntosh MCD-500, VPI HW19 MKIII, Soundsmith Aida, Furutech Ag-12 phono cable, Furutech silver head shell wires, Furutech interconnects and Furutech speaker cables (yes I like Furutech) and Raidho XT-3 speakers. Now on some albums the vocals are buried behind the music and you have a really hard time hearing the singer? Not all albums are voiced in this manner but enough that it is bothersome. I have a large dedicated man room (24 x 27) with minimum treatment. CDs sound just fine so I feel that it is with the phono preamp in the C-100? I have moved the speakers 100s of times and have them at 5' 8" apart and 8' 1" to the focal point and the soundstage is good and the vocals are better, but you still have to really listen hard to hear certain vocals on some albums. Most of my albums are 30 to 50 years old and have been cleaned with a sonic cleaner (best thing ever imho). Even some of my new heavy vinyl has this problem.
scooby2do
hdm
1,062 posts
 
czarivey nailed it as far as I'm concerned.

Assuming everything is connected properly and the MM input is functional, gain is approximately 35 dB on the MM input which is considerably light for a 2.1 mV cartridge, which would probably be optimized with around 44-45 dB of gain.

On the other hand, 68 dB on the MC side is way too high, and more suited to very low output MC's, certainly below .25 mV and more likely to be effective with .1 to .2 mV cartridges.

Get a new cartridge, get a new phono stage, or modify the gain on the existing phono stage.

Most records would probably sound like they were being played through a wet blanket.
scooby2do OP
13 posts
 
Cleeds- the Pro-ject does use a mirror as part of the alignment process.hdm that sounds more likely as czarivey stated it must be a mismatch between cart.and phono stage of the C-100 as nothing else has had any real effect on the problem. Moving to a fairly high end system has shone me that even albums are recorded at different volume levels as are CDs and that the ones that are recorded at those lower levels seem to be the ones that have more of those issues. I want to thank everyone who has chimed in to help and don't stop if you have any other ideas. It may take awhile to find a new phono stage ( under $2000 ) suggestions will be acepted and looked at
effischer
560 posts
 
I also suggest a different cartridge; I should think a LOMC would be the way to go, but that's my preference.  Your preamp is a very nice rig.

Alignment is the other critical issue as noted above.  The Pro-Ject system works well but as you said, one really must be patient with it and double-check everything.  The one I have (Strobe-It) is quite a bit thicker than the average record.  You don't say which arm or specific tool you have, so you'll want to see where your VTA is both on vinyl and the alignment tool to make sure that isn't an issue as well.

Good luck & happy listening!
raymonda
855 posts
 
No, because cd sound fine does not mean that all is in phase. You simple may have the cartridge pins connection on one side reversed. I would make sure this is correct. Double, triple check your cartridge connections. 

The connections on s should be as such

Red      White
Green   Blue

when looking from the front of the cartridge/table to the back.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
5,943 posts
 
scooby2do
the Pro-ject does use a mirror as part of the alignment process
But that's for azimuth, correct? Something like a WallyTractor uses a mirror to set tangency and actually aligns the cantilever itself.

I could be mistaken about the Pro-ject gauge, so I'd appreciate your clarification. 
More to discover