Horn based loudspeakers why the controversy?


As just another way to build a loudspeaker system why such disputes in forums when horns are mentioned?    They can solve many issues that plague standard designs but with all things have there own.  So why such hate?  As a loudspeaker designer I work with and can appreciate all transducer and loudspeaker types and I understand that we all have different needs budgets experiences tastes biases.  But if you dare suggest horns so many have a problem with that suggestion..why?
128x128johnk
Post removed 
ebm 4,320 posts01-07-2018 9:28amLets get Horney ASAP!!!!!
Jump at it, lets get Horney ASAP, Dude!!!!!
Let’s get down to brass tacks here. Most haven’t really heard horn speakers at all, let alone very good horn speakers. Those that have have heard hybrids mostly, and though hybrid solutions can sound wonderful they are, in their less dedicated iterations, commonly plagued by continuity problems between the midrange horn and the direct radiating unit(s) for the lower frequencies, not to speak of other inherent and potential issues that can mare any kind of speaker principle. If you fail the sound of a hybrid solution that incorporates a horn be aware that you’re addressing a combination, but a combination of what? Not only a horn, suffice it to say.

All-horn speakers aren’t necessarily devoid of problems either, but more often than not I find all-horn iterations to be more dedicated in their approach and less apologetic, in a sense, of their origin and type of speaker. Going all-horn in other words I find typically embraces what horn speakers truly are qua horns, with all that implies in regards to size, system requirements and overall implementation; you go the horn route you damn well better go all the way and make it dedicated (which very often simply means going a different way to unlearn much of what one has been accustomed to over time), to really be able to get a bearing on their true worth and potential.

Even then such a dedicated setup won’t appeal to everyone, but how is that indicative of anything? I gather at least 98% of audiophiles out there use direct radiating solutions (be they dynamic coil-diaphragm drivers, electrostatic, ribbon, "radial strahler" or whatever that aren’t loading an acoustic impedance transformer, i.e.: a horn) - which, whether you want this or not, very generally has a distinctive sonic imprinting (and set of limitations) in itself - with a minority of those using hybrid solutions involving horns, and very often just by virtue of a difference to what one is used to a very capable set of all-horn speakers can be deemed "thumbs-down" just by failing to conform to your preferred type of "cuisine." Some hearing the dynamic capabilities of all-horn speakers even go so far as to stir the notion of "exaggerated dynamics," and that pretty much hits the nail on the head with regard to the importance of context, and how things can get "distorted" here..

For the sake simplicity, if we maintain ~98% of all audiophiles to use direct radiating speakers, would that reflect a consensus into what has the biggest sonic potential, not least compared to a live acoustic reference? Now let this question seep for a while before you go vicious on the keyboard. I’ll cut to the chase however with my take on an answer to this by saying: no. Is this a way then to disqualify or deflate much if not most of the vitriol against "horn" speakers? In a way, yes, because in most cases we aren’t really addressing horn speakers qua horns, but instead hybrids that aren’t really this nor that.

If we want to address horn speakers that truly are, let’s address them as such and not some watered-down entity that sits between to two chairs, and then go out and listen to some bloody all-horn speakers to know what they can be. Whether conical or curved, old or new, I’d advice to rid oneself of prejudice and expectation, even habit, and let them have their shot, so to speak.

In essence: the controversy surrounding "horns," as I see it, has more to do with misinformation, confusion of definition, convenience and habitual bias than any actual assessment of a pair of true horn speakers. I don’t mean to blast those who do not prefer them, but would rather be without theory-laden and reductive arguments that seeks to ridicule them as a whole. I that regard certainly, let’s not beat the bushes..

While I appreciate the theoretical discussion, how about some perspective on the sound?  What specific systems or drivers/components have you all heard and either liked or really disliked?

I have been listening to a system with three G.I.P. field-coil drivers: 18" woofer, WE 555 clone midrange compression driver (feeding a YL horn, and a WE 597 clone tweeter.  This is among the nicer sounding horn systems I've heard.  I have heard MANY systems using YL horns and drivers, IPC compression drivers, some RCA drivers and WE drivers that I have also liked a lot.  These were all custom builds.

In my own system, I run a WE 713b compression driver and a 12025 sectoral horn, and a fostex bullet tweeter and twin 12" drivers in an Onken bass reflex cabinet.  I suppose this is a horn hybrid system, but, it is at least reasonably efficient (99 db/w) and I run it easily with a 5 watt pushpull amp.

I have heard a few commercial horn systems that sounded quite nice, such as an EdgarHorn system and Cessaro system.  I also liked, with some reservations, the Avantgarde duo and trio systems I've heard (bass was a bit uneven and not well integrated). 

Would agree horns match best with horns making a hybrid system is a compromise. Full horn loaded systems are rare mostly due to size and since rare not many experience them. I have people fly in from many parts of the earth to hear mine. I have built owned so many horn systems over the years and at this time have 3 all front loaded horn systems running many are stored- one uses a 20ft long 900lb front bass horn- one just a giant RCA front horn -also using pair of RCA Shearer horns and a pair of community leviathans with 515 and TAD mid all systems use combinations of vintage and modern though I can and have run many stock to get a idea what they were originally capable of.  Since much of front horning is done by DIY types I have heard greatness but also ignorance in some set ups. But even those who bumble are learning and knowledge is well worth pursing. I do know that today hands on is kind of shunned most today just want to drop in local shop or open amazon and get instant gratification. So I never expect front horns to become popular but they sure can perform and I do think that some will always be after this performance aspect since most other designs do not equal it or do not supply it due to size and cost constants. The market demands small similar designs and that is what buyers get. The market does not demand giant horn systems but that doesn't negate what these types of design are capable of. Today if one wants better than average one must seek it out and that takes a bit of effort that today most do not care to do.