Thiel Owners

@prof Do you think Jim Thiel was insincere when he told Jeff Fritz:

The improved resolution is not the kind of thing that shows up well in measurements; the magnitude of the difference between the CS2.4 and the CS2.4SE is more easily heard than discerned from graphs. The new capacitors allow more nuance, air, detail, and decay to be reproduced by the coaxial drive unit. This was especially evident to us when listening to recordings that contained realistic reverberation, as well as recordings where the instruments were not processed heavily.  

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Thanks! for sharing- prof and beetlemania

I tend to agree with Jim Thiel and Bill Conrad, respectively.
There is an improvement between the CS 2.4 / CS 2.4SE, believe me, I spent many hours of listening to ensure that nothing was remissed.

Regarding Conrad Johnson, if one is considering a model of pre or power amp, and there is a "SE" upgraded model available, go for the "SE".
Totally worth those sweet teflon caps and vishay resistors.
Happy Listening!

beetlemania,

No that doesn't sound insincere.  I think Jim was a pretty straight-shooter, so that suggests he believes he heard the difference.  Though I would have been interested in a longer conversation with Jim, to draw him out on the subject and see how he may nuance things.

Though I would have been interested in a longer conversation with Jim, to draw him out on the subject and see how he may nuance things.

Well, I think it's telling that he called the Clarity Caps "boutique" capacitors. That sounds quite condescending to me. My supposition is that he was pretty firmly in the "objectivist camp" (measurements tell you everything you need to know) for most of his career and only reluctantly admitted, towards the end of his life, that measurements don't tell you everything.

There is no doubt that his designs measure superbly well (except as measured by Stereophile - JA's "quasi-anechoic" method limits the mic distance to a mere 50"). Soundstage's measurements of the CS2.4, for example, are among the best they have examined in terms of flat frequency response and low distortion. And I consider his drivers to be among the best ever made - near-pistonic behavior albeit handicapped by the slow roll-off of the first order filters. But that quote to Jeff Fritz, shortly before Thiel's passing, clearly indicates that he recognized that not all sonic improvements can be quantified by machines.

Beetlemania,

Your remark "I'll venture to guess that a tricked-out CS2.4 would retail for $10-15K but compete sonically with other designs up to $40K. A tricked-out CS3.7 might retail in low $20Ks but be considered as among the best speakers available" got me to thinking. I'd certainly be interested in something like that for my 3.7s, not that I'm unhappy with them in their current incarnation! It certainly would be an opportunity for an enterprising individual to offer that kind of mod service. FWIW, eBay lists a "crossover upgrade service" for Thiels -- I have not explored this though.

 Any savvy technicians out there with knowledge of the Thiel crossovers?