Jazz for aficionados

I agree with Ps, ’cause a statement that a player is not good just because he or she is unknown to a wider audience is in the best case pure generalization, a stereotype by which one underestimates someone’s work. I’ll quote Ps: "If something is "undiscovered" it is precisely that."

Very nice Stan Getz & Chick Corea, Frogman, thank you. Chick Corea is new to me.

Pryso, Sandoval also new to me...

On Dizzy:

I was never the fan of Dizzy but if God himself tells me that this is not good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVVc-41D5GQ

I would tell him: You are crazy.

(Song: the peak at 5:21 in video)

Can you please tell me who are the other players with Dizzy on this one?

’Cause I always seem to forget to mention other players when mentioning ’the star’ and this is so wrong of me ’cause everybody else in the process contribute in making the main man, main.

Some thoughts on the subject of the “forgotten” or “undiscovered” musician:

I think that there is at least some truth in just about every comment so far re the reasons why some players remain obscure; but not every reason cited is relevant to what I think the core question here is. For example:

Yes, it is true that some players are “young and just getting known”; but the focus of this discussion is mostly musicians from the past who stopped being young a long time ago and had ample opportunity (years) to be better known.

Yes, it is also true that there are and have always been musicians who have wanted to stay home and not go to “the big city”. There are many fine players in towns other than the biggest cities. However, I think we are talking about musicians who make, or are capable of making, significant statements and not just musicians who are good or very good. Musicians are each other’s toughest critics. Just as they can be ruthless by keeping lesser players from playing during jam sessions, they are extremely committed to seeking out those players who, by reputation, are known to be truly great. The news of the young phenom in “small town, USA” who is truly “saying something” new and unique spreads like wildfire in the jazz world; consequently, it is highly unlikely that this player will remain obscure for long.

Yes, it is also true that because of the nature of this music, music in which interaction with other musicians is a more important component than most other genres, being around other players who will challenge and raise the bar is a vital ingredient for becoming a player that is truly great. Being the biggest fish in a small pond is unlikely to result in being one of the big fish in the ocean. Moreover, I think that a player’s willingness and emotional drive to be where the action is and put up with the difficulties that come along with that says something important about the ultimate potential of that player.

Now, let’s put all this in a certain perspective. A quick internet search of “the most underrated jazz musicians” resulted in several lists (opinion, of course) of the top ten most underrated:

http://www.jazz.org/blog/6-underappreciated-jazz-artists-you-should-check-out/

https://www.learnjazzstandards.com/blog/top-ten-underrated-jazz-musicians/

http://toobbox.com/blog/the-10-most-underrated-jazz-musicians/

I am sure that it will be obvious that what is striking about the names on these lists is that with one or two exceptions all of the musicians mentioned have been well covered, or at least mentioned, on this thread. The point is that when assigning “Underrated” status we are digging pretty deep here. Johnny Griffin underrated? Really?!

For me the bottom line is that it is easy to be seduced by the romance of “the undiscovered/underappreciated artist”. Have there been players who are worth hearing and who didn’t get their due? Well, worth hearing, yes; and there have been several posted here thanks mostly to Alex. That didn’t get their due? That’s a little more complicated, imo. What does that mean, exactly? One of Alex’s recent posts was trumpeter Don Sleet. Probably my favorite of all of his “forgotten/undiscovered” players. I was glad to hear and learn about this player. Is Don Sleet a player that brought anything new to jazz or shaped it in any significant way? I don’t think so. Do I want to add Don Sleet recordings to my collection when there are still so many records by Blue Mitchell, Art Farmer, Fats Navarro and others that I still don’t have? Unlikely. Have there been musicians of the artistic caliber of a Satchmo, Bird, Miles, Sonny Rollins, Trane, Bill Evans and, yes, Ornette Coleman, or even the “tier” below (Johnny Griffin) that slipped through the cracks and were never discovered or have been forgotten? Not a chance in hell.

To begin with, jazz is near the bottom of the list in regard to popularity of music genres; this thread is an example of that, it's at the bottom of the list on "audiogon".

Some have given more reasons than you can shake a stick at for that fact, but the fact remains.

Most of the people you named are well represented and appreciated in "Aficionados collections".

The only way they could be more widely appreciated is to play Rock, Pop, or Rap; but then it wouldn't be jazz.

The people you mentioned are very well known to me, and have been appreciated for most of my life. While we are introducing them to "newbies", they are well represented in our collections, as old aficionados.

The fact that jazz is a very individualistic art, also means that the people who appreciate it are very individualistic as well.

Out of the artists on that list of 6, "Blossom Dearie" is the only one I question. Although I have her in my collection, I wouldn't rush out and buy one of her albums; maybe there is a reason "Blossom Dearie" is under appreciated.



I guess 5 out of 6 according to me, isn't too bad, but Earl Hines is the only one that I could appreciate that I haven't listened to lately; sort of "nostalgic" he is, and today is my day for nostalgia.