Ortofon Red/Pro-ject Carbon Debut combination; rolled off hi-frequencies. Solutions?

@morbius2130aol

My next step is to swap out the cartridge with a conservatively priced (less than $350) unit, based on what I hear (and don’t hear) then fine tune the system with a complimentary cable upgrade and probably an outboard phono preamp down the road.

Right, within your budget (or very close) i would strongly recommend a high compliance Audio-Technica AT-20SLa with genuine 20SL Nude Shibata Stylus (not a bootleg from LPgear). Simply search on audiogon and you will find more about this great MM cartridge from the golden age of Moving Magnets. This cartridge has so many followers here on audiogon. Another cartridge in this price is probably Grace F9E, but the AT20SLa (Shibata) is much better than Elliptical F9E.

Chakster, Ive heard the Ortofon 2M on a AT LP120 Turntable ($350) running through my Manley Chinook phono pre and Jumbo Shirmp linestage with Dynaudio Contour 3.0 speakers driven by a McIntosh MC352. My system is very sensitive to the source and while the 2M red is surely a budget cartridge, its very listenable and to compare the new MM's from Ortofon to a old Stanton.....really is not on the same level at all imo. What were doing now in 2018 with spinning vinyl is leaps and bounds ahead of what we heard in our homes 30-40 years ago, if its not, look to your system!

Matt M

@mattmiller Stanton 881s MKII was a choice of Doug Sax (RIP) if you know who it is and if you don’t know look at Sheffield Lab studio gear. This is his master disc monitoring cartridge for years. Doug Sax did the greatest Direct Cut recordings of all time. This cartridge cost under $250 today (used) or even cheaper if you’re lucky to find one in the USA. I’m not gonna say it’s the best MM cartridge, because there are better Stanton cartridges out there like the signature SC-100 WOS or 981 series, but the Stanton is clearly better than 2M Red and the price for that Stanton is pretty low. Here is the article about 3 top carts used by the greatest mastering engineers from the golden age of vinyl, those carts are Technics 100c MK4, Audio-Technica AT-ML170 and Stanton 881s MKII.

I hope you’re not trying to say that modern Ortofon MM cartridges are better?
Unfortunately Ortofon M20FL SUPER is no longer available - that was a good one with Fine Line stylus.

Not sure how many cartridge have you tried, but i have tried many of them and still trying/looking for something that can surpass the vintage MM, but i can not find anything that comes even close to some of my favorite MM carts, they are all from the 80s, but i was born in the 70s and i have not tried those carts until now.

In my system i use at the moment: AT-ML180 OCC, Grace F-14 LC-OFC, Grace LEVEL II MR/MR and Stanton CS-100 WOS ... and many others... they are all superior to the 881 MKII for sure, but the price for those carts are 3-5 times as much and they are easily competes (on the right tonearms) with 3-4k MC cartridges.

BTW I owned Dynaudio Contour 1.1 (bookshelf) with powerfull Dynaudio SUB-300. Dynaudio is definitely not my type of sound! Sold them long time ago.

I find my nirvana with super high efficient (101db) Zu Audio Druid MKV full range speakers instead (no crossover). It’s completely different sound and that’s why the source (aka cartridge) is important for me. I also drive them with new tube amp, so i’m not the one who stick to the old gear, except for the cartridges and turntables.

Before you toss the cart, have you measured how much the high freq are rolled off?

what about adjusting the cart loading on the phono stage.....

you may want to consider the following.
1. get a disc with test tones on it,.
2. play the disc back on your current set up.
3. connect a volt meter to your phono pre amp output stage.
4. record the AC voltage produced at each test frequency.
 
Once you have that, then you can determine how rolled off it is or isn't.

BR

FOLLOW UP TO MY ORIGINAL POST of 1/26/18...

Hi there again.

After careful consideration of all your valued inputs I checked all the mechanical aspects of 'table and tonearm setup and bought a very slightly used Sumiko Blue Point #2, install and calibrated it, spun a couple dozen vinyl sides and noticed the following.

The Sumiko is dramatically smoother throughout the frequencies. The bloated bass of the Ortofon was gone, replaced by a much better defined and articulate bottom end that is rich in tone and timber. The hi-freq's opened up, and the missing air and spacial information became much more obvious. The midrange and voices are no longer highly prominent and are much more consistent with the entire musical spectrum. The musical presentation is better defined and voices are more natural and far less forceful. The image is deeper and instrument location is better defined.

While the Sumiko is not quite as dynamic and dramatic as the Ortofon but it is superior in it's obvious neutrality and overall fidelity. If I had to use a word to sum up, it is "graceful" by comparison.

For a hundred bucks, the Ortofon Red is a great value in it's price range. However, the Blue Point simply blows it away it with it's musicality. It's like comparing a pick-up truck to a Porsche.

Thanks again for all your input.
morbius