Looking for the best moving coil cart that is around $5K used

Years ago I happened to be be at a high end hi fi shop in the bay area one day when a person was trying to make a decision about which turntable to buy. The contenders were a Linn Sondek and a Linn Basik. Both tables had the same arm and both were equipped with the same cart - I think it was a Grace F9E.

First up the was the Axis and it sounded good, but within seconds of the Sondek starting to play it was no contest. The Sondek was clearly better. I was actually stunned by the amount of the difference.

Now, to be fair, there are numerous variables that could have been tweaked by the dealer to make the Sondek sound better, so all this has to be taken with a grain of salt, nonetheless the difference was startling.

I have just acquired a Shelter 901 Mk III and loving it, but I don't have near the exposure to high end carts that others on this thread do.

I'll weigh in with a few terse comments:

1. Setup is  the weak link in the vast majority of turntables/Tonearms/cart.
2. As used cartridge is an unknown, and at best has only a portion of its life left - not just the tip, the suspension
3. I have not had that Pioneer, bu if its up to the challenge that you must pose with a $5k cart, its a bloody miracle.  See setup above.
4. Note that TTs are primarily about reducing motor noise and speed variation; tonearms however are more than good/bad - the mass-to-cartridge compliance matching becomes critical - just liek springs and dampers on a race car.

To itsjustme. I know most of u think I've lost my mind, my saying I can't hear the difference between my two TT. When first mounting my Urishi, I did find I had to increase the tone arms mass to make the cart come alive. I thought I had bought a piece of junk. However, once the mass was increased, at the suggestion of Koetsu, everything was great. The Pioneer is direct drive, which means the speed is spot on. The plinth also is quiet-maybe more than the VPI. I'm enjoying great reproduction from both. I love dropping the tone arm and hearing that imaging that only vinyl can give. U know-the sound of the stylus leading into the song?  It comes at u from both sides and u anticipate that truly wonderful sound you're about to hear. Guess I'm just looking for a change. What's better than two of the best?  In case you're suspecting my set up is skewed, it isn't. And I've experimented with different base supports. I worked for months getting a base support than was almost totally immune to acoustic feedback and vibrations. I can now play records that have heavy bass and high volume levels, with no negative repercussions. I'll ask again-did anyone else miss the forum email Friday?  I've contacted Audiogon and they're going to try to resend it Monday.  If you're willing, pls try forwarding the email to me at steve.hege@att. net. Hope they let this go through. If not, I'll post again without my contact info. 👌

Well handyman, you say the speed is spot on because the TT is direct drive. I don’t think so.

TT generate lots of noise, which means vibration, and speed variation. It is only a question of the spectrum and amplitude of noise. For example, there is an inherent noise from the motor: cogging. Its frequency is some multiple of 1.8 seconds / number of poles. Then there is bearing noise, whose frequency is some fraction of 1.8 seconds. Then there is noise from the power supply, at idiosyncratic frequencies.

All of this noise is attenuated by the moment of inertia (rotational "mass") of the platter. Noise is nevertheless there, and it presents as artificial brightness, sibilance, high frequency edge. Its reduction is one of the main goals of high end.

If you don’t agree with my analysis, fine. But this is wholly objective: can your tonearm support fine azimuth adjustment, to a few minutes of arc? If not, your Urushi deserves better.

I should also have noted that in the real world of physical measurements, speed is always an average. So speed can be spot in when measured over a few seconds, but nevertheless have huge variation when the average is taken over a few milliseconds. The ear hears clearly to 20KHz, so a 50 microsecond average is clearly audible, let alone the problems with beats, which push the threshold further yet. This is the old statistical problem of measuring with one number, the mean. It says nothing about the standard deviation or higher moments.