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Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Hi All.

Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.

I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.

Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?

All opinions welcome.

And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.

Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
mattnshilp
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
 I don’t hear this purported advantageous asset with comparisons as stated earlier.


That fine if you can't, but I do with CD's 16/44 or the magic sounding Reference Recordings 24/96 CD's that have HDCD encoded which my Linn CD12 thankfully can do with the PMD200 chip.

The best which I've yet to hear from what I've been told is DXD.
I've heard the defunct DVD-A which was very good, better than the Reference Recordings above it's a pity it didn't take off. 

This is a good read from MSB Technologies, they use R2R Ladder in their top line dacs. (big bucks)

 http://www.msbtechnology.com/faq/why-ladder-dacs/

Cheers George
shadorne's avatar
shadorne
7,491 posts
 
Perhaps it is the harmonic distortion from an R-2R DAC that listeners like - kind of like tubes - measures poorly but sounds subjectively better...

With two types of resistor perhaps the distortion is more in the even harmonics.

All I can say is that for sure the harmonic distortion is way higher on R-2R than DS DACs due to the non-linearities introduced by the finite accuracy of the ladder resistors.

If true, then even low cost R-2R might sound great because higher cost R-2R will likely have less harmonic distortion...
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Yes I’m familiar with MSB and have heard a few of their DACs. No doubt that they are fully committed to discrete resistor ladder R2R . I understand the supposed merits of this approach. I used to own a Metrum Octave DAC a few years ago and brought it primarily due to its R2R approach and universal rave reviews. It was in fact a good sounding DAC but preferred the Yamamoto DAC (DS) in my system. I heard the Holo Audio Spring level 3 DAC (discrete ladder design) in my system. Very good but again I found the Yamamoto YDA better sounding. The Metrum and Holo Audio are representative of "bit perfect" given their architecture. TotalDac (bit perfect) outperformed by the delta sigma Bricasti SE in a friend’s system I listened to extensively. .

George it could be as simple as we heard differently. I’ve listened to a number of R2R DACs and they ranged from good to exceptionally good but did not exceed the sound quality of comparable delta sigma DACs. We both have our respective listening experiences and subsequent outcomes. At the end of the day we judge and formulate opinions based on what we have heard.
Charles
shadorne's avatar
shadorne
7,491 posts
 
Here is a thesis paper explaining why R-2R DACs have lots of harmonic distortion.

Looks like the distortion is consistent across all harmonics.

https//pdfs.semanticscholar.org/9a52/fcba6dd87371974b3c146dbb5a3a00ffee74.pdf

These students were sponsored by NAIM to investigate ways to reduce this non-linearity harmonic distortion that is inherent to R-2R designs.

The 2nd harmonic will give this kind of DAC a richer sound. The higher odd harmonics will tend give an R-2R a slightly harsh edgy sound in the treble. My guess is that R-2R DAC manufacturers will use filtering to roll off the highs in order to reduce the odd harmonic harshness in the upper treble. Subjectively this might be preferable to a higher performance DS DAC.


gdhal's avatar
gdhal
1,641 posts
 
shadorne - Here is a thesis paper explaining why R-2R DACs have lots of harmonic distortion. Looks like the distortion is consistent across all harmonics.....

Hi shadorne. I have no disagreement in what you are stating in your previous post. I would just like to submit as food-for-thought that Jimi Hendrix used fuzz distortion. Not quite the same as the distortion you are speaking of, nevertheless, worth mentioning, IMO.

EDIT:

....that would be *intentionally* used....
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